From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id AIcEBnlOO2K2CwEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 17:44:41 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id QN5gA3lOO2I6agEA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 17:44:41 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A464E2A6E6 for ; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 17:44:40 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:37298 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nX46B-0005VA-Md for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 12:44:39 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:46662) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nX3tO-0005yP-3F for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 12:31:26 -0400 Received: from relay3-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.195]:39349) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1nX3tM-000103-2Z for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 12:31:25 -0400 Received: (Authenticated sender: admin@nicolasgoaziou.fr) by mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B60866000A; Wed, 23 Mar 2022 16:31:20 +0000 (UTC) From: Nicolas Goaziou To: Ihor Radchenko Subject: Re: [RFC] DOCT: Declarative Org Capture Templates (easier template syntax) References: <87wo66t8i7.fsf@gmail.com> <87y2qlgq33.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87d07wkbkz.fsf@gmail.com> <87czihdiyy.fsf@localhost> <875yo8u5kj.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87bkxzd5wc.fsf@localhost> Mail-Followup-To: Ihor Radchenko , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, No Wayman Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2022 17:31:19 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87bkxzd5wc.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Mon, 21 Mar 2022 17:14:11 +0800") Message-ID: <87wngkk4vc.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/27.2 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.70.183.195; envelope-from=mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr; helo=relay3-d.mail.gandi.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, No Wayman Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1648053880; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post; bh=ITi1Wv4S49DfUDJMKnIdFUfg5pRUoWt7uaObclo/pNc=; b=ge2f2Dgv8bkX57S+nGpSpeS1VdSeiMz9ZrxZ5skw62PLarPtG/sHxw6fW5BESJsYFI36QR s73qsMIssxacTksvOvh7p2E3ljO5+gE3WGXKmWqzGVsgXBYyBpv9A6Vhh601M9yZKVtP9b IBkEc4awe90CNrOtQyzE/cnStfasTxR6YQ3HwU91VOslS7AE1CEojRMyDbaNiNtGDVno1L K8d69PXbkxVlgBK4sqg0P8M9TRFcolV8jq+qujrspos4EFlLW0VVg2dk1/Mtm0OSxm9foc nrC/6V6J4yyFr3IDPbcfCLWv2B9KoRj05Og3wRXeVPDArPRvhYUIiUO6qwZLUw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1648053880; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=jA5G/1Bu/1vDNbzSl0olIIDgenT91dkWcRR8Xl3ZvCZ9y330EavuWPOGXbIubVVpBAaiz3 Lt4vzNMGxYOAgieZpv2TR0rAf8NboIxXPSuKUMQ6+FFRoeooZGOy94QY9xW41ygAh9zrzf gl1cAMnqqtblt6Pvm4I4n5LCLYWkleFm9Nni15Q1K35pLB0cyZjBB9TFU/RpCXCXyIX6Yq tBt1XSmRGl0in5cG1Or97dk8NjVPQoRjb51dAynyLQmG1XFQQV395od4UWb5NsvZj34Ovp 4P9/i+Na+CEGmOuCSGvmgc3BOrx16COgv0KohZm6+tK90t5gblhZ/yEK0TNPJQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.29 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: A464E2A6E6 X-Spam-Score: -3.29 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: gmLiw2xOCUTg Hello, Ihor Radchenko writes: > Nicolas Goaziou writes: > >> I think there should be a direct mapping between Customize interface and >> values. Adding this macro as a band-aid to simply configuration is not, >> IMO, a solution. > > I think that current customize interface for org-capture-template is > perfectly fine. doct aids users who set org-capture-templates > programatically. I am merely pointing out that the programatically defined value is then no longer compatible with Customize interface. It may be important, or not. >> If capture templates values are too complicated, what about simplifying >> them, and possibly use this macro as a temporary solution to help >> transition? > > Could you elaborate what you are referring to? doct is a simplification > of otherwise more complex templates. Without doct, users may need to > write addition Elisp to define complex templates. With doct, a number of > things can be done in a more compact form. The fact that we need a tool like "doct" to write templates in a compact form may be a sign that the data type is not good enough. Actually it sounds like a failure somehow. Should templates definition be more compact out of the box? Could the data type be made more powerful to permit more complex templates without relying on doct? IOW, can a tool such a doct be made transparent to the user? Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou