From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id 4NtXBXhlxmPLcQAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 10:08:08 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id aOhtBXhlxmN83wAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 10:08:08 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF65921EFF for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 10:08:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHhw0-0008BG-Fu; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 04:07:12 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHhvw-00089f-A3 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 04:07:10 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pHhvl-0002pf-Mw for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 04:07:02 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A851724020E for ; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 10:06:54 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1673946414; bh=DUxNR793pLpef3cxGbJ9/fnDCWiYNqkr0YKTe92YZJw=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=gTRC3MlMEypx1d+uveZ7CuyTSTMIsDwVFZ2Cgz2Vx7U56Uar2yaG/imyYJ2KNUJtH Y3aBR03kyxUHfZgd/f13wP2oPPqlzvjcGTM0IVEvgkY6tOCI2HxlYF67UDyQEWdqEG Z6G8JMeSo8EG1C20lhFTm7obb49owD28t5LMgTUXGXGBR1UZm7QNUL1+5Oz1xKajeT 6svL24tcOksz44AYasct6QbjHUo2xcDlKGd5XOIF+ZZ3dsQXu3meQ9Mq9Y/y0ypYKS gh/feXaBIkHlxGgPjcWI5KoWkAULTelrV6VAvVm+avz5envU7pjJSCDLoi/DoFvDfr R0oWOUC4muZCA== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4Nx31850tJz6tmB; Tue, 17 Jan 2023 10:06:52 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Tim Cross Cc: Daryl Manning , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda In-Reply-To: <63c5b3b1.170a0220.829b8.fc00@mx.google.com> References: <86zgamtv6o.fsf@gmail.com> <87tu0t1i0c.fsf@localhost> <63c2aa9e.170a0220.3bb49.9ef4@mx.google.com> <87pmbhz1x6.fsf@localhost> <87wn5mlo7f.fsf@localhost> <63c5b3b1.170a0220.829b8.fc00@mx.google.com> Date: Tue, 17 Jan 2023 09:07:23 +0000 Message-ID: <87wn5lil6c.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=gTRC3MlM; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1673946487; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=dWuYSWpUcZqeuJE2aywSJFzbHGAftINz0hG5rhia0IePa8p7IFcaM/tHYF3wv4q9RlttFP RCFAN8jty7nXnUOYCBbjLJsBAUADTdn52MFDgcAir61k3GIMVFnKRJ4RFNRRmqnV4r2ege biR7bwtdplFLBxa9MSOeIlrRng6GQqtD3dSEoZhSQPtU3lX4lc5KkVSSaeRSFyB8iBxYV5 Nz3EtlA8iPlRqE2i1rGLRqz4Tb6Bep75VVZ3BoiJKeavCP6qF2tWYOQpwKAMx3mOgaUA7N OhVR3WtJkPssi4xDmBsDrf983nxSm2HdUFqWvg2rxVuReGzM0zbTyvqmrRXTYQ== ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1673946487; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=PAtKkYSAimrls9VQPhFCdQbMAaLiymqwQgQqwvOLSC8=; b=Kh5yaNQFhWgB2XnGZD+dfPTDQa+MtwZmB4Rw66yH/NkCiRopnb8bjKIg4YBJZnJ4JnNh3D hcWqQuT7ev+/hax7qS2OaWASaHflgyvr/Y22weMIOjXI9/+dRXNg0jU7PQt+Uj09Iks2zT djOinlCQAkdpRA6x5xVJ/0llfaF+6BxS4j+3krynvAXYvdLxSou0nDSWL1/HkDutY+P/Vx 3si9ekYZLu0PMjoFowADe7u3dVQuVW9Sf2z9DMJdlMox3xtzROMxWLEkrz0hq6I3j+fRt+ yQrt7No8hhG8xXGSD5NzsrzW3JqFTAh2ZaGQrsRzZzBJ8oOYXGqBQxmdbngOMg== X-Migadu-Queue-Id: DF65921EFF X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=gTRC3MlM; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -11.38 X-Spam-Score: -11.38 X-TUID: QP+Q2M69WVYc Tim Cross writes: > Daryl Manning writes: > >> I think timezone you're in should be declared globally, surely? And then defined in the timestamp? >> > > Do you mean globally as in at the OS level or globally in org mode. If > the latter, I disagree. The OS has this information and there is no need > for org to repeat it (and possibly hav it wrong). I would go the other > direction and say that the TZ should only be defined in an org file i it > differs from the OS setting. I am not sure here. Consider the following situation: 1. Someone lives in Berlin most of the time and has all the business activity, including meetings in Berlin. 2. All the timestamps, including scheduled meetings are thus recorded in local time - there is not much point specifying that it is Europe/Berlin when system time is Europe/Berlin anyway. 3. The meetings are scattered across various Org files. 4. The same person goes on holiday to a different time zone with no plans to do work meetings there. No adjustments to Org settings or files are being made. 5. There is a meeting in Berlin time being scheduled shortly after the holiday. 6. Due to emergency (say, flight delay), it becomes impossible to come back to Berlin in time. The meeting must be attended online thus. 7. The local computer time zone is automatically set to the local time though. And combined with the timestamps being scheduled in "local" time (assuming that they will only matter in Berlin), it becomes a problem. Note that the computer time zone should be retained to make agenda display real meeting times in local time. 8. Solution to that problem is telling Org somehow that all the timestamps without time zone specifier must be considered in Europe/Berlin, not local time zone. At least, temporarily. 9. The easiest way Org can support such need would be global "default" time zone. It will be easier than a need to go through every possible Org file on computer and hand-setting the Europe/Berlin there. So, I am in favour of allowing Org-global "default" time zone in addition to setting it on per-file, per-heading, and per-timestamp basis. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at