From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id MBIHDAyksl/ePwAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 16:08:44 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id 6LzGBwyksl92RwAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 16:08:44 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8F5F794011C for ; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 16:08:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:56880 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1keh3Z-000756-S0 for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 11:08:41 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56964) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kegzo-0005UL-U9 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 11:04:49 -0500 Received: from mout.web.de ([217.72.192.78]:51133) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1kegzm-0006RP-P4 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 11:04:48 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1605542683; bh=mcPYZfoWhWu4d5FqkLlquWSOqLPnUVub71xKb0p4gzM=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:References:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date; b=F94LjgqQ5Wczs6NutsoUjY5gLh9ChmI+YZ243sjtmIFLHhYScXZQ/86e72k4IBZkL JNk3sJXVO5+/4SPboTSohWc5xhhF0s9irmyC/fu3i5zvXuLgxyEP1A8Dks0aNptOVl rUPt/vfHJNi2PmQv9yzGoi6UivJgVDZJfx87c14A= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from fluss ([80.136.19.238]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb106 [213.165.67.124]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MoNZC-1juLkw3x7o-00ov7j; Mon, 16 Nov 2020 17:04:42 +0100 References: <2020-11-13T18-23-43@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> <874klqew77.fsf@web.de> <20201115122154.50ad1503@linux-h0yu.fritz.box> <87tutq67ka.fsf@gmail.com> <87tutpvppm.fsf@kyleam.com> <871rgtwzrs.fsf@web.de> <87y2j1ahqf.fsf@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 1.4.13; emacs 27.1 From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" To: Tim Cross Subject: Re: Changed list indentation behavior: how to revert? In-reply-to: <87y2j1ahqf.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 16 Nov 2020 17:04:41 +0100 Message-ID: <87v9e5uw2u.fsf@web.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature" X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:dtM0RFFXsMb8OX2h0Ka5Gl+Vs8i3w137i+7rNXCBU/dvtxCL5fw VUsMWp2wCQw1kumyrz7iSBP9xnNbZIq49Wixt5iH87QsNDZwplGAB6hzCs24mdNWT8fSe4p 9lbmAo+5fOssvncUcdj+wAxhHfrE9I940+HnaMm/DlPXIP8US7EKk6sa4Ds2qcL3l0Gec/v ny4cxWDYwqKldiOxgB/Og== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:RKaQfi+w1ns=:KG6vGyt/9n82UQHauPgJXm g+xZxbNbQIoPj837lEKxmqxxAkYvKF6Y0iEmZyQPuhnGf1Qs0JuEpKoYAxNwFdbNI8/xF3KAn rlBlJOb1fEXKRiJ4ZwVQaE06RBJDEmNMzX6d53/D77nERoL3r/4BPDqsJttZMg2XO+5mbRg+u RR0vtikWooEatYxh0WLbAhTNJxIo390pY8DXotjRIK4Jlp0wLLl3o6KQLNbByoGDAMmyu2RGH x7UxtCZdy7d9iOAYZnPlc9lKiKNwiCMk1r7IB7ghb+tNc9N+pEVocpvGXX3GnjZAKdUMdbsqS tIiuOhNdtg4dbn0alcSpLu+J7bscLknH80bt/pJ3ZgKP8Q8IOPN9iJXmVwn43K0BlJDsdY3av A1dhP5AEK/B0dojuzAhP1a2h23xdK3wcuw6svsmIrKoS3A5fYUE5H0kIyw/FI0Iw8YQ3rfkiy lt3SlI6+J7eGlXs+5D7FFTb7SECPkDkygeq5+xgCrCGf46KXmDEUhu9H0LXabUsO3AWQWngHS DupSG6Jp7mxQpBHPBMMpqSzZKgZbMqr1MlApP0PH/cnLvTzdGfUMNud6cXNye7Mhet1GZMNz3 2s2Fz8qAhykMUSudibkP3RbWI9SW8SCxxuwgqqoSHRADEy3+yDf9Yu6VQz/4T0VbuKnmBgyP+ t8xYXp1XMvJj7jxjVRvPdTSaVR7PXmMDNHH9f7E/hs4Cnrw0yVV79NLpjWxx0BgJsIbQp5QPz i/CPjGeVk0lL4L7tZ/8gdV8+EX03EK4fftbvbfaYfVPYzJhlWoO7ACrcw9128r1b4B9RzIQwW jBRUGiSVFpRyXXgQe1vM4IEUxt7sKjTOQOoyRY5Sqt5m1m4aanp769WEDkScqRsfM53k+EHVt vMo8+/vXE2OrjJYttZLA== Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.72.192.78; envelope-from=arne_bab@web.de; helo=mout.web.de X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/11/16 11:04:44 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 2.2.x-3.x [generic] [fuzzy] X-Spam_score_int: -27 X-Spam_score: -2.8 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: ns3122888.ip-94-23-21.eu Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=web.de header.s=dbaedf251592 header.b=F94LjgqQ; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=web.de; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Spam-Score: -1.81 X-TUID: +cd91FAlBy76 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tim Cross writes: > I can completely understand your position. However, I wanted to point > out that this change was documented in the org NEWS file, where all > version changes are documented. When upgrading to a new version of org, > everyone should look there, ideally before the upgrade or soon > afterwards and definitely when you notice some changed behaviour. It > will save hours of trouble shooting and often tells you how to restore > previous behaviour. A very under appreciated piece of valuable > documentation. I would like to agree, because I wish people would also read NEWS for my projects, but since I use at least 10-20 programs daily which depend on hundreds of libraries that might change their behavior, that=E2=80=99s unrealistic. I cannot read NEWS entries whenever my distro updates org-mode, therefore I depend on org-mode not breaking during updates. If an update changes behavior in a way that requires people to read up on stuff to find out how to continue working, that means that the program breaks with that update. I=E2=80=99ve been more liberal on that point before I saw the problems that arose from the Python2->Python3 transition. Many changes that each seem small on their own can cause significant damage, because there will always be some people that get hit by them during a period in their life when they cannot follow them, because they are fully occupied by work (mentally or because of little time) so the tools they trained with must just keep working. Best wishes, Arne =2D-=20 Unpolitisch sein hei=C3=9Ft politisch sein ohne es zu merken --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJEBAEBCAAuFiEE801qEjXQSQPNItXAE++NRSQDw+sFAl+yoxoQHGFybmVfYmFi QHdlYi5kZQAKCRAT741FJAPD67JXEAC7ay+1JnUud7LwifumtqanUtUv4ErMQal8 KL4pIvX3xA2uBMnOWLV2k07lxVz3TDiDpxn1iwFlLGUiGGftH4bjKdoJQOM/ZSni wZe6sizRMtfIR9kshIVPra/twYE4V80v6RN0lrejhV0TK3M3/f3mkgdtmz7SxX+D wChAsfXnn4+gkCUMpJY/gmHGVh1dQADo1HgPXF8725JWHu++iMr+/iopekOnRLPi kqnNGMM0xeC+lxj9ynLeIIV8lGSfyiLq1kZDRiLq1ZmYGe0/hGW8khSnMKyU8kyq r43a2Hs5abKc1OYZTkIxl5p91M4D17Z9YykkrTYt6pvB3or2EPM+JdNZxK/v9NVd C3DqZ/VtmLCkhQ0br+iGXlXMf52hRQDd6KSR46ojtNeidw8K1mDCmIWGrj7bUS9l jgZf1TcmRFKG2XRraoROA3l/XVbUkCXdEkTGicriwgJ6pu+IRRgiS9UvqyRpD8V9 wakPUggy2+XYPLqI8KvWUJmy2zbpKflTGXWsdBZ2liV2zqCZZUVIc4QTsfA1C7Wi SYYc+tv/d66jPWWcMfIqFme305xL66VvI4numdWNYBwdKratFy2E1qvBpp+2WF0K Q4dvDWmqpiotfg6iEjSv4a1eL1wzKM69yLaWsr4mQ0I4gHdxNg//hNwGoqBW1DtJ wnM4v6esZojEBAEBCAAuFiEE3Si95tmHXKvOSosd3M8NswvBBUgFAl+yoxoQHGFy bmVfYmFiQHdlYi5kZQAKCRDczw2zC8EFSO+3A/0Xz2ixg6xMx03MLpqXbmNArLEz gypnxBR19uan+xcEwSqHFeOE4W0Ee9ktIFYjkDy92vggwnxAm8dy2GMGkE3W+I1C QwXtOYoxz2VPrq5TKRAhQpkWRg/k2qUIyn2j/VuETpsgNg/hnYjzlcSR681MFpI4 xWoNT8VYxYvaMAxgdQ== =pIuK -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--