emacs-orgmode@gnu.org archives
 help / color / mirror / code / Atom feed
From: "M. ‘quintus’ Gülker" <post+orgmodeml@guelker.eu>
To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Citations: non-page locators placed in front of citation
Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2021 21:34:29 +0200	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87v923tkxm.fsf@atlantis> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAF-FPGMwQ86sGQ5f04h_hkD7dEn6i=5MUWk-aMHEbkYP=bvL2w@mail.gmail.com>

Am Montag, dem 11. Oktober 2021 schrieb Bruce D'Arcus:
> Looks like § is currently mapped to the same as ¶: "paragraph", which
> is indeed incorrect.
> https://github.com/citation-style-language/locales/blob/0cc3885f6100e26ac6c6d103efa6f3d7195fd21b/locales-de-DE.xml#L210

This is interesting. Pandoc -- which I thought relies on these files? --
outputs the expected § sign. For

    Das ist ein Test [@saenger2013gsr, § 12 Rn. 488].

it yields

    Saenger, Gesellschaftsrecht, 2. Aufl. (2013), § 12 Rn. 488↩

which is what I would have expected. The issue appears to be in the way
§ is interpreted in the text input.

After reading the locales-de-DE.xml file, I suspect a case of lost in
translation. In German, when read out aloud, we spell the “§” character
as “paragraph”. This is evidently different from the English speaker,
who, as I have been told, would read it out as “section”. However, in
fact the German word “Paragraph” translates to “section” in English. The
unit below it is called “Absatz” in German -- in English, it would be
“paragraph”. That is:

| English   | German    | German Short form |
| Section   | Paragraph | §                 |
| Paragraph | Absatz    | Abs.              |

At least, when it comes to legal contexts. As it always is the case with
language, meaning can vary be context. If I talk about sections of a
novel, in German it would be “Abschnitt” rather than “Paragraph”. But
that’s not something one would cite. If I really would need to cite a
novel, I would cite it either by chapter or by page number (with line
number, if necessary).

There is no symbolic sign to my knowledge to denote the unit below § in
German. The locales-de-DE.xml files suggests ¶. That might actually be
valid in some discipline, but we do not use that in jurisprudence. I do
not see a problem with it; it can be left in. What needs to change is
the part of org that maps § to CSL's "paragraph". § needs to be mapped
to "section" instead.

Long story short: I do not think that it is a bug in locales-de-DE.xml,
and I guess Pandoc proves my point here. Please map § to "section"
instead of "paragraph" in org-cite, i.e., do it the way Pandoc does it.


Dipl.-Jur. M. Gülker | https://mg.guelker.eu | PGP: Siehe Webseite
Passau, Deutschland  | kontakt@guelker.eu    | O<

  reply	other threads:[~2021-10-11 19:35 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 16+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-10-10  8:33 Citations: non-page locators placed in front of citation M. ‘quintus’ Gülker
2021-10-10 10:17 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-10-10 17:50   ` M. ‘quintus’ Gülker
2021-10-10 20:10     ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-10-10 20:31       ` M. ‘quintus’ Gülker
2021-10-10 20:53       ` András Simonyi
2021-10-11  5:19         ` M. ‘quintus’ Gülker
2021-10-11  9:36           ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-10-11 17:55             ` M. ‘quintus’ Gülker
2021-10-11 18:09               ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-10-11 19:34                 ` M. ‘quintus’ Gülker [this message]
2021-10-11 22:02                   ` Nicolas Goaziou
2021-10-12  5:42                     ` M. ‘quintus’ Gülker
2021-10-12 10:31                       ` András Simonyi
2021-10-12 17:14                         ` M. ‘quintus’ Gülker
2021-10-11  9:35         ` Nicolas Goaziou

Reply instructions:

You may reply publicly to this message via plain-text email
using any one of the following methods:

* Save the following mbox file, import it into your mail client,
  and reply-to-all from there: mbox

  Avoid top-posting and favor interleaved quoting:

  List information: https://www.orgmode.org/

* Reply using the --to, --cc, and --in-reply-to
  switches of git-send-email(1):

  git send-email \
    --in-reply-to=87v923tkxm.fsf@atlantis \
    --to=post+orgmodeml@guelker.eu \
    --cc=emacs-orgmode@gnu.org \


* If your mail client supports setting the In-Reply-To header
  via mailto: links, try the mailto: link
Be sure your reply has a Subject: header at the top and a blank line before the message body.
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox


This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).