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Sun, 24 Mar 2024 19:15:20 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: c.buhtz@posteo.jp Cc: Emacs orgmode Subject: Re: Presenting Hyperorg version 0.1.0: The Org to HTML Converter In-Reply-To: <4V2j2p2Pf9z9rxS@submission02.posteo.de> References: <87sf0lrqw2.fsf@localhost> <4V20vC3RwXz6twc@submission01.posteo.de> <875xxd6oeo.fsf@localhost> <4V28mv5Q3rz6tyS@submission01.posteo.de> <87h6gvbvt8.fsf@localhost> <9e466e7e9d9de12103df770ace706d21@posteo.de> <878r27bslj.fsf@localhost> <4V2j2p2Pf9z9rxS@submission02.posteo.de> Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2024 18:15:28 +0000 Message-ID: <87v85ba43j.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Spam-Score: -9.52 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 6DA5044701 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx13.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.52 X-TUID: wq8fk1o870+J writes: > I will consider your points and take them into account. Thanks! > On 2024-03-24 14:40 Ihor Radchenko wrote: >> If it is an option, it would be nice if you upstreamed your additions >> to orgparse. This way, we can get a better Python-based Org parser for >> everyone's benefit. > > The code is free. The orgparse maintainer is free to re-use it of > course. On the other hand in the long run I will consider to separate > my parsing code into an extra package. But currently it is to unstable > and do support only a small subset of all org(roam) features. It would help if you notify orgparse maintainer once your code gets more stable ;) >> I see. FYI, it is a bug to throw an error when parsing Org document. >> Any kind of text file is a valid Org document. There is no notion of >> invalid syntax in Org markup. > > You mean throw an error is a bug because it is not possible to > write invalid org documents? Yup. > I am not convinced yet. But I am open to it and willing to learn. > > Even org-html-export* itself do throw errors and stop processing when > there are unknown orgids. This has nothing to do with the parser. Erring on unknown ids/paths is a special _feature_ of Org exporter controlled by `org-export-with-broken-links' variable. `org-export-with-broken-links' is nil by default simply because (1) Org export has no sensible way to export links that point to nowhere; (2) Such links are generally unwanted and need to be corrected by the user in many use cases. > What is about an inconsistent block? > > #begin_src > foobar > #end_example With your example, the following AST will be produced by Org parser (`org-element-parse-buffer'): (org-data (section (paragraph "#+begin" (subscript "src") "\nfoobar\n#+end" (subscript "example") "\n")) >> > Other things are "invalid" links, e.g. unknown orgids, unknown roam >> > links, unsupported "link kinds" ("protocols" in org syntax?; e.g. >> > "inkscape:"). >> >> In Org terminology, we call these "broken" links. >> "link kinds" are link "types". > > The term "types" is to broad and conflicts with Pythons in build > functions. ;) That is the main reason why I used "kind". On the other > hand the org syntax reference IMHO also use the term "protocol". Syntax reference says the following: PROTOCOL A string which is one of the link type strings in org-link-parameters ^^^^^^^^^ We also always say "link type" in the manual. I just made things more explicit, replacing PROTOCOL with LINKTYPE: https://git.sr.ht/~bzg/worg/commit/0634eed3 >> Generally, part of the "Benefits" section is a bit hand-wavy. I >> recommend using more clear statements. Otherwise, it is not clear what >> exactly the benefits are. > > Again. It is also not "clear" for me. There are benefits just for > myself as an low-level-Emacs-and-org-user, someone who get headaches > reading Lisp code and feeling very comfortable using Python. In short: > My opinion is very subjective. And I don't have enough experience to > compare my tool to others. > I tried to make this point clear in my benefits section. And this is > also the reason why there was no benefits section in the first place > because I wasn't clear enough about what to write in there. > > Maybe I should rephrase the section to "Benefits and design goals". Maybe something like "Motivation"; to emphasize that the listed points are your subjective reasons to write the exporter. Still, it would be useful to have an objective comparison; if you want to get others to use your package. Having a clear list of reasons why your package is better is important then. (I implicitly assumed that you are interested to attract users after you announced the package in public) >> 1. Drop "Fairly resilient when dealing with parser issues." > > Why? The "design goal" is to process all nodes no matter how > bad/invalid they are. Simply because Org mode has no notion of invalid nodes. So, this kind of goal sounds very strange for me. >> 2. Reword "Fairly resilient managing dead and problematic links which >> are a common phenomenon when working with a constantly evolving >> Zettelkasten or personal wiki." And instead clearly explain how broken >> links are exported. > > I don't want to blow up the text. Not sure what you expect here. The > node is exported as HTML but the link is colorful highlighted and a > tooltip explaining the problem is added. Is it something akin when `org-export-with-broken-links' is set to 'mark? >> 4. Drop "Adhers to World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) standards for HTML5 >> and CSS ()." Most other blog exporters for Org mode >> adhere to standards. And those that are not are probably out of >> interest for the purposes of comparison. > > Why? If Org export does not adhere to standards, it is a bug, it should, and it will be fixed. And some other blog generators that do not use Org export (like Hugo) do conform to the standards, AFAIK. > Btw: Even code generated by org-html-export* (XHTML 1.0 Strict) give > errors on W3C. e.g. "type" attribute is missing in