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From: Gustavo Barros <gusbrs.2016@gmail.com>
To: rjhorn@alum.mit.edu
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: A small idea to simplify (further) time input in the date/time prompt
Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 13:49:38 -0300	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87tv09p71a.fsf@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <86d06xwaj2.fsf@panix.com>

Hi Robert,

On Thu, May 21 2020, Robert Horn wrote:

> Eric S Fraga writes:
>
>> On Thursday, 21 May 2020 at 09:29, Gustavo Barros wrote:
>>> So I'd like to suggest a simplification there, which is: a string in
>>> the format "hour h minute" (that's small caps letter "H"), but in
>>
>> I would be strongly in favour of having this option.  This is how I
>> write times in email messages, for instance, so would be more 
>> consistent
>> for me.  And especially when I communicate with my European partners
>> when referring to times after 12 noon.
>>
>
> I would be opposed.  There are already dozens of different formats 
> used
> in different situations and locations for writing the time.  This 
> would
> be yet another different time format.  It is relatively unique in that
> there is no other place in the world that uses it.  I don't think that
> uniqueness is an argument in its favor.
>
> There some other formats that are actually in widespread use worldwide
> that I would prefer as available alternatives:
>
> European dot notation.  Many people use the dot rather than the colon,
> so 13:05 is written as 13.05.  I think this is mostly a keyboard, pen, 
> and
> pencil thing.  Colon is harder to write.  It's inconveniently located 
> on
> many keyboards.  The problem with dot notation is potential confusion
> for more detailed time.  "15:53:00.322348" is easy to guess and
> understand.  "15.53.00.322348" is more confusing.
>
> Military time, which is used in most militaries, aviation, etc.
>
>   hhmmZ - Time in UTC on a 24-hr clock, also called "Zulu time".  The
>   ISO 8601 time "11:21:00 -0400" would be 1521Z.  This is almost
>   mandatory when dealing with multi-location scheduling so that 
>   everyone
>   uses the same time base.
>   
>   hhmmJ or hhmmh - Time in local zone on a 24-hr clock.  It's widely
>   used in military organizations for times that do not need
>   multi-location scheduling.  The time "1121J" or "1121h" is usually
>   spoken in English as "eleven twenty one hours".  These times are 
>   also
>   lack the colon typing problem.  
>
> I've not pushed for these mostly because convenience typing military
> time isn't worth figuring out all the changes that would be needed.
>
> It's worth looking at all the issues discussed in ISO 8601 and
> understanding them before you leap into time formatting changes.  ISO
> 8601 is a compromise solution with lots of warts, but it is widely
> supported and understood.

I do appreciate your arguments.  But in reading them, I'd like to 
emphasize that I'm not in any way suggesting the timestamps be changed 
at all.  The suggestion regards exclusively adding and extra way to 
input such times in the date/time prompt.  And one which I feel is very 
much in the spirit of the prompt, which already takes ".", "+4d" (even 
just "+4"), "+2w", "+2tue" as valid date specifications.  If I get this 
spirit correctly, it is to be smart in allowing short and easy input for 
the common cases, and the less common ones are handled by the 
full/formal date/time specification, which can always be inserted 
anyway.  This kind of input simplification is already taken far for 
dates in the date/time prompt, but less so for time.  And that's the 
only point my suggestion tries to address.  I have no particular 
attachment for the "h" input form I suggested, except that it seemed 
natural (Eric's response seems to endorse it).  If other ways to 
simplify input of time come up, they'd be equally appreciated, as far as 
I'm concerned.  And if none come up, the current date/time prompt would 
still be my favorite tool for the task, of course. ;-)

Best,
Gustavo.


  parent reply	other threads:[~2020-05-21 17:24 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 16+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2020-05-21 12:29 Gustavo Barros
2020-05-21 12:44 ` Gustavo Barros
2020-05-21 12:46 ` Eric S Fraga
2020-05-21 15:52   ` Robert Horn
2020-05-21 16:46     ` Detlef Steuer
2020-05-21 16:49     ` Gustavo Barros [this message]
2020-05-21 20:09       ` Robert Horn
2020-06-02 12:08 ` Bastien
2020-06-02 12:58   ` Gustavo Barros
2020-06-03 13:14   ` Gustavo Barros
2020-10-06 10:42     ` Gustavo Barros
2021-05-01 15:40     ` Bastien
2021-05-01 20:15       ` Gustavo Barros
2020-06-02 13:58 ` stardiviner
2020-06-02 14:14   ` Gustavo Barros
2020-06-02 14:42     ` stardiviner

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