* Scheduling of 2-day events
@ 2009-11-18 19:24 Markus Heller
2009-11-18 20:11 ` Bernt Hansen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Markus Heller @ 2009-11-18 19:24 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Hello,
subject says it all. Is this the appropriate way of doing scheduling a
2-day event (couldn't find an example in the manual):
* TODO Career/Training/Courses
** TODO Project Management Workshop
SCHEDULED: <2009-11-19 Thu 9:00-16:30>--<2009-11-20 Fri 9:00-16:30>
The agenda out put (C-c a a) looks like this:
Thursday 19 November 2009
ABC: 9:00-16:30 Scheduled: TODO Project Management Workshop
ABC: 9:00-16:30 (1/2): TODO Project Management Workshop
Friday 20 November 2009
ABC: (2/2): TODO Project Management Workshop
Thanks and Cheers
Markus
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Scheduling of 2-day events
2009-11-18 19:24 Scheduling of 2-day events Markus Heller
@ 2009-11-18 20:11 ` Bernt Hansen
2009-11-18 20:51 ` Markus Heller
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Bernt Hansen @ 2009-11-18 20:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Markus Heller; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Markus Heller <hellerm2@gmail.com> writes:
> Hello,
>
> subject says it all. Is this the appropriate way of doing scheduling
> a 2-day event (couldn't find an example in the manual):
>
> * TODO Career/Training/Courses
> ** TODO Project Management Workshop
> SCHEDULED: <2009-11-19 Thu 9:00-16:30>--<2009-11-20 Fri 9:00-16:30>
>
>
> The agenda out put (C-c a a) looks like this:
>
> Thursday 19 November 2009
> ABC: 9:00-16:30 Scheduled: TODO Project Management Workshop
> ABC: 9:00-16:30 (1/2): TODO Project Management Workshop
> Friday 20 November 2009
> ABC: (2/2): TODO Project Management Workshop
I would just drop the SCHEDULED: part
** TODO Project Management Workshop
<2009-11-19 Thu 9:00-16:30>--<2009-11-20 Fri 9:00-16:30>
so you don't get a duplicate entry. I'd also drop the TODO since it's
scheduled for a block of time and when the time is gone it's done -
whether you mark it DONE or not.
-Bernt
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Scheduling of 2-day events
2009-11-18 20:11 ` Bernt Hansen
@ 2009-11-18 20:51 ` Markus Heller
2009-11-18 22:45 ` Bernt Hansen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Markus Heller @ 2009-11-18 20:51 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Bernt Hansen wrote:
> Markus Heller <hellerm2@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Hello,
>>
>> subject says it all. Is this the appropriate way of doing scheduling
>> a 2-day event (couldn't find an example in the manual):
>>
>> * TODO Career/Training/Courses
>> ** TODO Project Management Workshop
>> SCHEDULED: <2009-11-19 Thu 9:00-16:30>--<2009-11-20 Fri 9:00-16:30>
>>
>>
>> The agenda out put (C-c a a) looks like this:
>>
>> Thursday 19 November 2009
>> ABC: 9:00-16:30 Scheduled: TODO Project Management Workshop
>> ABC: 9:00-16:30 (1/2): TODO Project Management Workshop
>> Friday 20 November 2009
>> ABC: (2/2): TODO Project Management Workshop
>
> I would just drop the SCHEDULED: part
>
> ** TODO Project Management Workshop
> <2009-11-19 Thu 9:00-16:30>--<2009-11-20 Fri 9:00-16:30>
>
> so you don't get a duplicate entry. I'd also drop the TODO since it's
> scheduled for a block of time and when the time is gone it's done -
> whether you mark it DONE or not.
Thanks for your reply, Bernt.
The TODO changes to STARTED when I clock this task in, which I do when
I'm working on my preparation. I could have a sub-task for preparation
and clock this, but in the end, this doesn't really matter too much to me.
Cheers
Markus
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Scheduling of 2-day events
2009-11-18 20:51 ` Markus Heller
@ 2009-11-18 22:45 ` Bernt Hansen
2009-11-18 23:00 ` Markus Heller
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Bernt Hansen @ 2009-11-18 22:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Markus Heller; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Markus Heller <hellerm2@gmail.com> writes:
> Bernt Hansen wrote:
>> Markus Heller <hellerm2@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> subject says it all. Is this the appropriate way of doing scheduling
>>> a 2-day event (couldn't find an example in the manual):
>>>
>>> * TODO Career/Training/Courses
>>> ** TODO Project Management Workshop
>>> SCHEDULED: <2009-11-19 Thu 9:00-16:30>--<2009-11-20 Fri 9:00-16:30>
>>>
>>>
>>> The agenda out put (C-c a a) looks like this:
>>>
>>> Thursday 19 November 2009
>>> ABC: 9:00-16:30 Scheduled: TODO Project Management Workshop
>>> ABC: 9:00-16:30 (1/2): TODO Project Management Workshop
>>> Friday 20 November 2009
>>> ABC: (2/2): TODO Project Management Workshop
>>
>> I would just drop the SCHEDULED: part
>>
>> ** TODO Project Management Workshop
>> <2009-11-19 Thu 9:00-16:30>--<2009-11-20 Fri 9:00-16:30>
>>
>> so you don't get a duplicate entry. I'd also drop the TODO since it's
>> scheduled for a block of time and when the time is gone it's done -
>> whether you mark it DONE or not.
>
>
> Thanks for your reply, Bernt.
>
> The TODO changes to STARTED when I clock this task in, which I do when
> I'm working on my preparation. I could have a sub-task for
> preparation and clock this, but in the end, this doesn't really matter
> too much to me.
Yes mine does too - but then I just move it back to no TODO keyword and
keep the clock running.
I don't normally clock in 'events', I clock in todo tasks - so if
there's something to do to prepare for the event I would normally stick
that in another task and clock that instead.
-Bernt
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Scheduling of 2-day events
2009-11-18 22:45 ` Bernt Hansen
@ 2009-11-18 23:00 ` Markus Heller
2009-11-19 13:26 ` Bernt Hansen
0 siblings, 1 reply; 8+ messages in thread
From: Markus Heller @ 2009-11-18 23:00 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Bernt Hansen wrote:
> Markus Heller <hellerm2@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Bernt Hansen wrote:
>>> Markus Heller <hellerm2@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> subject says it all. Is this the appropriate way of doing scheduling
>>>> a 2-day event (couldn't find an example in the manual):
>>>>
>>>> * TODO Career/Training/Courses
>>>> ** TODO Project Management Workshop
>>>> SCHEDULED: <2009-11-19 Thu 9:00-16:30>--<2009-11-20 Fri 9:00-16:30>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> The agenda out put (C-c a a) looks like this:
>>>>
>>>> Thursday 19 November 2009
>>>> ABC: 9:00-16:30 Scheduled: TODO Project Management Workshop
>>>> ABC: 9:00-16:30 (1/2): TODO Project Management Workshop
>>>> Friday 20 November 2009
>>>> ABC: (2/2): TODO Project Management Workshop
>>> I would just drop the SCHEDULED: part
>>>
>>> ** TODO Project Management Workshop
>>> <2009-11-19 Thu 9:00-16:30>--<2009-11-20 Fri 9:00-16:30>
>>>
>>> so you don't get a duplicate entry. I'd also drop the TODO since it's
>>> scheduled for a block of time and when the time is gone it's done -
>>> whether you mark it DONE or not.
>>
>> Thanks for your reply, Bernt.
>>
>> The TODO changes to STARTED when I clock this task in, which I do when
>> I'm working on my preparation. I could have a sub-task for
>> preparation and clock this, but in the end, this doesn't really matter
>> too much to me.
>
> Yes mine does too - but then I just move it back to no TODO keyword and
> keep the clock running.
>
> I don't normally clock in 'events', I clock in todo tasks - so if
> there's something to do to prepare for the event I would normally stick
> that in another task and clock that instead.
Bernt, just curious, how do you bill for the time you spent at an event?
My goal here is to try to catch all the time I spend on this workshop
``project'' (it's professional development so I have to bill all the
time I spend on it) in my time table, that's why I'm clocking it. This
should include preparation and the time I actually spend at the work
shop. If I followed your example, I'd create a level-3 task
(presumably) called ``Preparation'' and clock that, and the time spend
on this task will show up in my time table. But what about the actual
work shop?
Say you were in the same situation, how would you go about this? Maybe
a hidden org-mode gem that I haven't discovered yet?
Thanks and Cheers
Markus
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Scheduling of 2-day events
2009-11-18 23:00 ` Markus Heller
@ 2009-11-19 13:26 ` Bernt Hansen
2009-11-23 19:07 ` Markus Heller
2009-11-23 20:37 ` Łukasz Stelmach
0 siblings, 2 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Bernt Hansen @ 2009-11-19 13:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Markus Heller; +Cc: emacs-orgmode
Markus Heller <hellerm2@gmail.com> writes:
> Bernt Hansen wrote:
>> Markus Heller <hellerm2@gmail.com> writes:
>>
>>> Bernt Hansen wrote:
>>>> Markus Heller <hellerm2@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>
>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>
>>>>> subject says it all. Is this the appropriate way of doing scheduling
>>>>> a 2-day event (couldn't find an example in the manual):
>>>>>
>>>>> * TODO Career/Training/Courses
>>>>> ** TODO Project Management Workshop
>>>>> SCHEDULED: <2009-11-19 Thu 9:00-16:30>--<2009-11-20 Fri 9:00-16:30>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> The agenda out put (C-c a a) looks like this:
>>>>>
>>>>> Thursday 19 November 2009
>>>>> ABC: 9:00-16:30 Scheduled: TODO Project Management Workshop
>>>>> ABC: 9:00-16:30 (1/2): TODO Project Management Workshop
>>>>> Friday 20 November 2009
>>>>> ABC: (2/2): TODO Project Management Workshop
>>>> I would just drop the SCHEDULED: part
>>>>
>>>> ** TODO Project Management Workshop
>>>> <2009-11-19 Thu 9:00-16:30>--<2009-11-20 Fri 9:00-16:30>
>>>>
>>>> so you don't get a duplicate entry. I'd also drop the TODO since it's
>>>> scheduled for a block of time and when the time is gone it's done -
>>>> whether you mark it DONE or not.
>>>
>>> Thanks for your reply, Bernt.
>>>
>>> The TODO changes to STARTED when I clock this task in, which I do when
>>> I'm working on my preparation. I could have a sub-task for
>>> preparation and clock this, but in the end, this doesn't really matter
>>> too much to me.
>>
>> Yes mine does too - but then I just move it back to no TODO keyword and
>> keep the clock running.
>>
>> I don't normally clock in 'events', I clock in todo tasks - so if
>> there's something to do to prepare for the event I would normally stick
>> that in another task and clock that instead.
>
> Bernt, just curious, how do you bill for the time you spent at an event?
>
> My goal here is to try to catch all the time I spend on this workshop
> project'' (it's professional development so I have to bill all the
> time I spend on it) in my time table, that's why I'm clocking it.
> This should include preparation and the time I actually spend at the
> work shop. If I followed your example, I'd create a level-3 task
> (presumably) called ``Preparation'' and clock that, and the time spend
> on this task will show up in my time table. But what about the actual
> work shop?
>
> Say you were in the same situation, how would you go about this?
> Maybe a hidden org-mode gem that I haven't discovered yet?
Hi Marcus
Sorry if this reply is a bit late ... I just noticed your workshop is
_today_.
I would probably create a task something like this
,----[ diary.org ]
| ** Project Management Workshop 09:00-16:30
| <2009-11-19 Thu>--<2009-11-20 Fri>
| [2009-11-19 Thu 07:57]
`----
to record the actual booked event with time. This blocks off a time in
my calendar on the days of the event so I know I'm busy then.
I would create separate todo tasks for clocking whatever I did during
the workshop.
,----[ work.org ]
| * Training
| ** TODO Project Management Workshop
| *** TODO Preparation
| [2009-11-19 Thu 08:03]
| **** TODO clocked item 1
| [2009-11-19 Thu 08:03]
| **** TODO clocked Item 2
| [2009-11-19 Thu 08:03]
| *** TODO Day 1 (clocked)
| [2009-11-19 Thu 08:01]
| miscellaneous clocked time goes here
| **** TODO subitem 1
| [2009-11-19 Thu 08:02]
| **** TODO subitem 2
| [2009-11-19 Thu 08:02]
| *** TODO Day 2 (clocked)
| [2009-11-19 Thu 08:02]
| **** TODO subitem 1
| [2009-11-19 Thu 08:02]
| **** TODO subitem 2
| [2009-11-19 Thu 08:02]
`----
If it's a 2 day workshop I'm paid to attend then I'd clock the Day 1 and
Day 2 items and just record subitems with details for the day (creating
the subitems should create an inactive timestamp) so you know when you
did it but you don't need to clock how long each subitem took. I would
leave the clock on the Day entries and keep the detail under it.
I tend to use remember tasks for miscellaneous unplanned tasks I need to
do - like respond to this email - and clock it in when I start work on
it (which may be the same time I create the task or it may not). If I'm
clocking a Day 1 type task then I'll use remember mode to record new
items and file under the current running clock. Each subitem records
when it was created (via a hook or remember template)
More detail is better than not enough - but you don't want to waste time
trying to figure out what needs to be clocked - keep it as simple as you
need.
HTH,
-Bernt
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Scheduling of 2-day events
2009-11-19 13:26 ` Bernt Hansen
@ 2009-11-23 19:07 ` Markus Heller
2009-11-23 20:37 ` Łukasz Stelmach
1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Markus Heller @ 2009-11-23 19:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Bernt Hansen wrote:
> Markus Heller <hellerm2@gmail.com> writes:,
>
>> Bernt Hansen wrote:
>>> Markus Heller <hellerm2@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Bernt Hansen wrote:
>>>>> Markus Heller <hellerm2@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> subject says it all. Is this the appropriate way of doing scheduling
>>>>>> a 2-day event (couldn't find an example in the manual):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * TODO Career/Training/Courses
>>>>>> ** TODO Project Management Workshop
>>>>>> SCHEDULED: <2009-11-19 Thu 9:00-16:30>--<2009-11-20 Fri 9:00-16:30>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The agenda out put (C-c a a) looks like this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thursday 19 November 2009
>>>>>> ABC: 9:00-16:30 Scheduled: TODO Project Management Workshop
>>>>>> ABC: 9:00-16:30 (1/2): TODO Project Management Workshop
>>>>>> Friday 20 November 2009
>>>>>> ABC: (2/2): TODO Project Management Workshop
>>>>> I would just drop the SCHEDULED: part
>>>>>
>>>>> ** TODO Project Management Workshop
>>>>> <2009-11-19 Thu 9:00-16:30>--<2009-11-20 Fri 9:00-16:30>
>>>>>
>>>>> so you don't get a duplicate entry. I'd also drop the TODO since it's
>>>>> scheduled for a block of time and when the time is gone it's done -
>>>>> whether you mark it DONE or not.
>>>> Thanks for your reply, Bernt.
>>>>
>>>> The TODO changes to STARTED when I clock this task in, which I do when
>>>> I'm working on my preparation. I could have a sub-task for
>>>> preparation and clock this, but in the end, this doesn't really matter
>>>> too much to me.
>>> Yes mine does too - but then I just move it back to no TODO keyword and
>>> keep the clock running.
>>>
>>> I don't normally clock in 'events', I clock in todo tasks - so if
>>> there's something to do to prepare for the event I would normally stick
>>> that in another task and clock that instead.
>> Bernt, just curious, how do you bill for the time you spent at an event?
>>
>> My goal here is to try to catch all the time I spend on this workshop
>> project'' (it's professional development so I have to bill all the
>> time I spend on it) in my time table, that's why I'm clocking it.
>> This should include preparation and the time I actually spend at the
>> work shop. If I followed your example, I'd create a level-3 task
>> (presumably) called ``Preparation'' and clock that, and the time spend
>> on this task will show up in my time table. But what about the actual
>> work shop?
>>
>> Say you were in the same situation, how would you go about this?
>> Maybe a hidden org-mode gem that I haven't discovered yet?
>
> Hi Marcus
>
> Sorry if this reply is a bit late ... I just noticed your workshop is
> _today_.
>
> I would probably create a task something like this
>
> ,----[ diary.org ]
> | ** Project Management Workshop 09:00-16:30
> | <2009-11-19 Thu>--<2009-11-20 Fri>
> | [2009-11-19 Thu 07:57]
> `----
>
> to record the actual booked event with time. This blocks off a time in
> my calendar on the days of the event so I know I'm busy then.
>
> I would create separate todo tasks for clocking whatever I did during
> the workshop.
>
> ,----[ work.org ]
> | * Training
> | ** TODO Project Management Workshop
> | *** TODO Preparation
> | [2009-11-19 Thu 08:03]
> | **** TODO clocked item 1
> | [2009-11-19 Thu 08:03]
> | **** TODO clocked Item 2
> | [2009-11-19 Thu 08:03]
> | *** TODO Day 1 (clocked)
> | [2009-11-19 Thu 08:01]
> | miscellaneous clocked time goes here
> | **** TODO subitem 1
> | [2009-11-19 Thu 08:02]
> | **** TODO subitem 2
> | [2009-11-19 Thu 08:02]
> | *** TODO Day 2 (clocked)
> | [2009-11-19 Thu 08:02]
> | **** TODO subitem 1
> | [2009-11-19 Thu 08:02]
> | **** TODO subitem 2
> | [2009-11-19 Thu 08:02]
> `----
>
> If it's a 2 day workshop I'm paid to attend then I'd clock the Day 1 and
> Day 2 items and just record subitems with details for the day (creating
> the subitems should create an inactive timestamp) so you know when you
> did it but you don't need to clock how long each subitem took. I would
> leave the clock on the Day entries and keep the detail under it.
>
> I tend to use remember tasks for miscellaneous unplanned tasks I need to
> do - like respond to this email - and clock it in when I start work on
> it (which may be the same time I create the task or it may not). If I'm
> clocking a Day 1 type task then I'll use remember mode to record new
> items and file under the current running clock. Each subitem records
> when it was created (via a hook or remember template)
>
> More detail is better than not enough - but you don't want to waste time
> trying to figure out what needs to be clocked - keep it as simple as you
> need.
>
Bernt,
thanks a lot for your detailed explanation, I'm sure it'll be helpful to
me :)
Thanks and Cheers
Markus
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
* Re: Scheduling of 2-day events
2009-11-19 13:26 ` Bernt Hansen
2009-11-23 19:07 ` Markus Heller
@ 2009-11-23 20:37 ` Łukasz Stelmach
1 sibling, 0 replies; 8+ messages in thread
From: Łukasz Stelmach @ 2009-11-23 20:37 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Bernt Hansen <bernt@norang.ca> writes:
> Markus Heller <hellerm2@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Bernt Hansen wrote:
>>> Markus Heller <hellerm2@gmail.com> writes:
>>>
>>>> Bernt Hansen wrote:
>>>>> Markus Heller <hellerm2@gmail.com> writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> subject says it all. Is this the appropriate way of doing scheduling
>>>>>> a 2-day event (couldn't find an example in the manual):
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * TODO Career/Training/Courses
>>>>>> ** TODO Project Management Workshop
>>>>>> SCHEDULED: <2009-11-19 Thu 9:00-16:30>--<2009-11-20 Fri 9:00-16:30>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The agenda out put (C-c a a) looks like this:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thursday 19 November 2009
>>>>>> ABC: 9:00-16:30 Scheduled: TODO Project Management Workshop
>>>>>> ABC: 9:00-16:30 (1/2): TODO Project Management Workshop
>>>>>> Friday 20 November 2009
>>>>>> ABC: (2/2): TODO Project Management Workshop
>>>>> I would just drop the SCHEDULED: part
>>>>>
>>>>> ** TODO Project Management Workshop
>>>>> <2009-11-19 Thu 9:00-16:30>--<2009-11-20 Fri 9:00-16:30>
>>>>>
>>>>> so you don't get a duplicate entry. I'd also drop the TODO since it's
>>>>> scheduled for a block of time and when the time is gone it's done -
>>>>> whether you mark it DONE or not.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for your reply, Bernt.
>>>>
>>>> The TODO changes to STARTED when I clock this task in, which I do when
>>>> I'm working on my preparation. I could have a sub-task for
>>>> preparation and clock this, but in the end, this doesn't really matter
>>>> too much to me.
>>>
>>> Yes mine does too - but then I just move it back to no TODO keyword and
>>> keep the clock running.
>>>
>>> I don't normally clock in 'events', I clock in todo tasks - so if
>>> there's something to do to prepare for the event I would normally stick
>>> that in another task and clock that instead.
>>
>> Bernt, just curious, how do you bill for the time you spent at an event?
>>
>> My goal here is to try to catch all the time I spend on this workshop
>> project'' (it's professional development so I have to bill all the
>> time I spend on it) in my time table, that's why I'm clocking it.
>> This should include preparation and the time I actually spend at the
>> work shop. If I followed your example, I'd create a level-3 task
>> (presumably) called ``Preparation'' and clock that, and the time spend
>> on this task will show up in my time table. But what about the actual
>> work shop?
>>
>> Say you were in the same situation, how would you go about this?
>> Maybe a hidden org-mode gem that I haven't discovered yet?
>
> Hi Marcus
>
> Sorry if this reply is a bit late ... I just noticed your workshop is
> _today_.
>
> I would probably create a task something like this
>
> ,----[ diary.org ]
> | ** Project Management Workshop 09:00-16:30
> | <2009-11-19 Thu>--<2009-11-20 Fri>
> | [2009-11-19 Thu 07:57]
> `----
>
> to record the actual booked event with time. This blocks off a time in
> my calendar on the days of the event so I know I'm busy then.
I created something lik this (see: <878wdx1ajo.fsf@dasa3.iem.pw.edu.pl>)
-=-=-=-
* Zarządzanie projektami 09:00-17:00 :POLITECHNIKA:
<2009-12-02 śro >--<2009-12-03 czw >
-=-=-=-
but I still get the second day below the time grid.
Wednesday 2 December 2009
Projekty: 9:00-17:00 (1/2): Zarządzanie projektami :POLITECHNIKA:
Thursday 3 December 2009
Projekty: (2/2): Zarządzanie projektami 09:00-17:00 :POLITECHNIKA:
I get the proper result when I enumerate dates
-=-=-=-
* Zarządzanie projektami 09:00-17:00 :POLITECHNIKA:
<2009-12-02 śro> <2009-12-03 czw>
-=-=-=-
but this makes the recurrence counters dissappear.
--
Miłego dnia,
Łukasz Stelmach
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 8+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2009-11-23 20:37 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 8+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2009-11-18 19:24 Scheduling of 2-day events Markus Heller
2009-11-18 20:11 ` Bernt Hansen
2009-11-18 20:51 ` Markus Heller
2009-11-18 22:45 ` Bernt Hansen
2009-11-18 23:00 ` Markus Heller
2009-11-19 13:26 ` Bernt Hansen
2009-11-23 19:07 ` Markus Heller
2009-11-23 20:37 ` Łukasz Stelmach
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