From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id oJNyE2H4DWBeSwAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 22:44:49 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id 8INFD2H4DWC2VAAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 22:44:49 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7CA5E94029C for ; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 22:44:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:34146 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l3o7j-0007oA-AB for larch@yhetil.org; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 17:44:47 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:58410) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l3o7K-0007nl-VB for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 17:44:22 -0500 Received: from mail-qt1-x836.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::836]:38886) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1l3o7H-0008OM-Nj for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 17:44:22 -0500 Received: by mail-qt1-x836.google.com with SMTP id c12so8465516qtv.5 for ; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 14:44:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=sender:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to :message-id:date:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=BtHp1unYv7dO9DPI/2q+L16p900iNLv43CEZcRBoi3Q=; b=ZdUPvQDsLkmWbE9VjdS9TG3arv5VBgoRjhwGDKPMN2StLRALxQCm8QUynd8htvc0x8 FCZ7Jcqu4ls9CKlpR5Ri6Qn4DLxVsDW0WG7AZNkteZURWOQJkbyiTkI6+hdGkgX7WkgY nZnhSSgRQ5BYaxszVWK/bTpXRWRLtDFSisrnhm+y/90KY10UhRsOIbIeeSY9Q185mDow jQi/iuOqAcw9dYKyJnMAQLmiwPs0eh0RCHFFDEHjPOq6RCwiYvZwaD3YZDrcGeubMT/O 4TbgAAQg+q/MXcfFA3QRJEY8XlqchIaxcf8zFV/UpGLwokfSJKZLnt3bfPHe1msNVAX5 vc+A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:sender:references:user-agent:from:to:cc:subject :in-reply-to:message-id:date:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=BtHp1unYv7dO9DPI/2q+L16p900iNLv43CEZcRBoi3Q=; b=mvIphEmzIdYrY4U3NgfzAYWOnwHj9Ffj/dI/DYwuKEd+i6+PGUwcVtPBbgXgBA2O8V ZJE5EaRjYoWFavigwrm/TrNYWFULwdC+wHam6hxPbGz6ATMfJEPkO3PRFLnHmSDOH5Qp uib+b/3+j8CleBZPAnOFMdI8cjKPMTrvEIYhKRC9ee9cBmKkxbpXmfwJeFcw9o0WqUZ9 nx9kMX7zGRCxglBXWqlej4j1lnbGlLerc8WBaeI5ttOc1eImdQ+8whdZBfLGYccBmZ7B ggNySbb5zKACuf47wt3WgXDnTeKZAg0ByVLqCRKB5fehk2pCdvC11FjW71f0OPPfriSq ztzA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533Emh/lOGh8LYqjQWj2+TFbbKuRFC1TcBbaZ/0c49gsCKbpkHFn gZuzHxy+0DrCCDFyUw2PssvH4gHhFXgnVw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwtb+SeGEETeqTCxE7MhOgd62tVPXNjPbuvMQTgTkp5okJ0lUo7MwqEQ0N4HoW6jsvGdZxK2w== X-Received: by 2002:ac8:4755:: with SMTP id k21mr2137543qtp.376.1611528257569; Sun, 24 Jan 2021 14:44:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from gusbrs-laptop ([143.244.45.26]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l20sm11037652qtu.25.2021.01.24.14.44.15 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Sun, 24 Jan 2021 14:44:16 -0800 (PST) References: <87wnw3oqz1.fsf@posteo.net> <87ft2qlg66.fsf@gmail.com> <87eeialcay.fsf@gmail.com> <87ft2q87mm.fsf@posteo.net> User-agent: mu4e 1.4.15; emacs 27.1 From: Gustavo Barros To: Juan Manuel =?utf-8?Q?Mac=C3=ADas?= Subject: Re: [Tip] Export a bibliography to HTML with bibLaTeX and make4ht In-reply-to: <87ft2q87mm.fsf@posteo.net> Message-ID: <87sg6qx8ea.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 24 Jan 2021 19:44:13 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::836; envelope-from=gusbrs.2016@gmail.com; helo=mail-qt1-x836.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -17 X-Spam_score: -1.8 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.8 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: orgmode Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.25 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=ZdUPvQDs; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmail.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 7CA5E94029C X-Spam-Score: -1.25 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: 7qwdG6wwEHR7 Hi Juan, On Sun, 24 Jan 2021 at 16:20, Juan Manuel Mac=C3=ADas=20 wrote: > I agree with what you comment here and in your previous message. In > fact, I'm afraid this (humble) approach of mine is focused only on > creating a mere list of references in HTML from a bib file, keeping=20 > the > same bibliography styles that I have customized in bibLaTeX, but not=20 > on > everything related to citations throughout the text and on the > consistency between citations and bibliographies. I would say that my > method is not a good starting point to implement a solution. [...] > > In my case, anyway, I had been using the TeX ecosystem almost > exclusively for my work in typesetting and editorial design (I do not > use DTP software, which is not intended to create books but magazines > and newspapers), and Org Mode for writing and notes. But in recent=20 > years > I have come to realize that a workflow based also on Org and=20 > Org-Publish > is tremendously productive for me to manage the typesetting of a book, > especially a complex book. Let's say now I also use Org as a=20 > high-level > interface for LaTeX. I'm currently working on the /Hispanic Dictionary > of Classical Tradition/ (/Diccionario Hisp=C3=A1nico de la Tradici=C3=B3n > Cl=C3=A1sica/), a volume of multiple authorship and about 1200 pages. The > method I raised in this thread has to do with this scenario, where=20 > each > dictionary entry is accompanied by a bibliography. As the dictionary > will have an online secondary version, I wanted to keep the same > bibliography style that I had defined for bibLaTeX. I have not had the > problem of the citations here, since the entries do not contain > citations (bibliographies only). Otherwise, I think an emergency > solution could be to export from Org to *.tex, and then generate the > HTML from there using make4ht and another preamble /ad hoc/, better=20 > than > using a mixed csl/bibLaTeX method which, as you say, can result in=20 > many > inconsistencies. Well, I think your approach should work quite well for your use case,=20 and certainly a number of others. It is just a matter of being aware of=20 the limitations of the tool. That given, it is great. Of course, I was=20 also curious how you had figured things from a more general perspective. > The > essential problem, of course, is that our customization is=20 > LaTeXcentric: > it resides in LaTeX/bibLaTeX and not in Org. [...] > I think it is more than just being "LaTeXcentric". Depending on=20 requirements, there is really no choice. We don't hear this often, but=20 the fact is that Org does not support citation and bibliography by=20 itself. A lot of things "work", and in many requirements scenarios that=20 seems to be enough, but what does work relies on outsourcing that task=20 to other tools. As far as I know, there are only two ways out of an Org=20 document with citation and bibliography: LaTeX (and its related tools:=20 bibtex, biblatex, biber, etc), and pandoc (which uses CSL to process=20 these features). The first option is extremely featureful, but=20 restricts us to .pdf output. The only sufficiently general option with=20 multi output is then pandoc, which in turn bypasses the whole Org export=20 infrastructure, implying its own trade-offs because of that. Besides,=20 there is no real link between the LaTeX infrastructure and pandoc/CSL,=20 so that if you want to reach "best results in LaTeX, and acceptable=20 results in other formats", you are bound to live with differences in=20 output for citation/references across formats and to remain under the=20 restrictions of the least featureful backend. > Long ago I tended to be more in favor of the idea that a single > source-text should produce multiple identical or interchangeable > formats. I really still believe it with enthusiasm and I have not > completely lost faith in such a utopia ;-) I'd also would love to see that. ;-) And I do think Org is, by far, the best placed tool to fill this place.=20 But I also think citations and bibliography are a big bottleneck in that=20 regard. Of course, there is a long ongoing effort in that area, in the=20 `wip-cite' branch, and the related `org-citeproc' package. I'm still in=20 the hope this will get merged in future not too distant, as it would=20 change things in that regard. Not in the sense of "magically solving=20 all of these problems", but in providing a convened base upon which=20 people can than invest their time and effort, and try to figure each=20 case out, with time. Best regards, Gustavo.