From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id SCJPN2PNVmGO/wAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 10:57:07 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id 0CcWM2PNVmE3MgAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 08:57:07 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2F8B034797 for ; Fri, 1 Oct 2021 10:57:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:45514 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWELp-0003mY-Eo for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 04:57:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:54760) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWELA-0003mB-Hr for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 04:56:24 -0400 Received: from mailer-211-160.hitrost.net ([91.185.211.160]:18715) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mWEL8-0000DF-48 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 04:56:24 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=christianmoe.com; s=x; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: In-reply-to:Subject:Cc:To:From:References:Sender:Reply-To: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Cqwr0RZvfS1zSpAoe1JtAiCRgqoSIjweJi1hVKqZhhY=; b=GiHR3KMCPG9mAhrN4A4AK2p6bL Mz0rtKBKTZYiImFuI3vsKK3kdi96wNQxlRKF3ioaVAADsSh4g38NJ3vxaU6qdOiKPu2zdfDKJVCeB Gi30/fRhmkxb0lu+rC8N0jDDqR+5EnR4IF+5r5+d+yum/2XsfS6nUVPvBO/OwftUllBxyJqt1/Qpt 5llgDKyftLKMOAPiffZ/mTeEGWsPlSWA3AfgMlFNbmCvE3suZ0it658Bbdg3aoloJp4904IZfe39m DERzCPxvLAwsbkw4hIqSnwHGjro6G2olTyETY9YtdjLhffD5I85GlSSbf7/v0wR44hA6BRryhvj5t 3NQKmy1w==; Received: from lk.84.20.244.215.dc.cable.static.lj-kabel.net ([84.20.244.215] helo=Tauriel) by b1.hitrost.net with esmtpsa (TLS1.2) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1mWE6C-008w1R-Lu; Fri, 01 Oct 2021 10:40:56 +0200 References: <875yuh9b3t.fsf@gmail.com> User-agent: mu4e 0.9.19; emacs 25.3.2 From: Christian Moe To: Tom Gillespie Subject: Re: [PATCH] Accept more :tangle-mode specification forms In-reply-to: Date: Fri, 01 Oct 2021 10:39:07 +0200 Message-ID: <87sfxl6swk.fsf@christianmoe.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-GeoIP: Country [IP], SI [84.20.244.215] X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus X-Authenticated-Id: mail@christianmoe.com Received-SPF: pass client-ip=91.185.211.160; envelope-from=mail@christianmoe.com; helo=mailer-211-160.hitrost.net X-Spam_score_int: -16 X-Spam_score: -1.7 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.7 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_INVALID=0.1, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Org Mode List , Timothy Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1633078627; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Cqwr0RZvfS1zSpAoe1JtAiCRgqoSIjweJi1hVKqZhhY=; b=TYNsYkru+E6IPLlh9131x9V5P8NdpzJ1TdC1zSt6n+PlmHP4kxNJCPwNESuTAV/C17Bh1g IM5pnRTL8ZJvNl8U6C7YiuxfTJyZw/O8wbIfIcLK2IvLewcnRTr5HROeJsOxHeSjKKGy1p wxeMcVCogsgezOI3lSVloT6zplJcFuxLjK3NwNQX1VH7jJu+fvpJ689+SmOoF87vhUNtLM SyQ5vrlu5haPsbR5KA1H+V5iT95jBgkYqsB58SB45IJ9IRLDMnEfFCmPsWDgkT1VhUevmq l4y3Bp4DkoLYzBRM0VkzhyPWhWCg2RWWp8BjQ0jD66lPj8TRTwk3zBRJRNR2qQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1633078627; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=n4yxFokre/+OxzE+07pFQXArVw34DkRafy6fYP45EybowJMiCr4EvkBHRQ8pUtw85rt4it 6FanmYy/t7n5YPeDuIcXGfhTQtM+CaPYGIbBesFRUambS6S63i56napw99R2ypcwMgeLgo +Vj4o392xxJbmGfANfpnccm7Fnh+OiyVxhUHjSQoQabXSMroqyEyK51oXbWZeOKwKX7BdM tXoIgV89/rW+A4adr8wAhPu8BRm0vWzZ7S64TABfWnbP1tr1LDU/gyVmaO+PGlKfrjBl7i iSmhYhUwqiRc3XBE1jpxpSKgiqbUIRr0MFGEcM2lQfBkuzEPcYI2A1oQ6OQevg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none ("invalid DKIM record") header.d=christianmoe.com header.s=x header.b=GiHR3KMC; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -0.90 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none ("invalid DKIM record") header.d=christianmoe.com header.s=x header.b=GiHR3KMC; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 2F8B034797 X-Spam-Score: -0.90 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: nGOryHEZnyze Tom Gillespie writes: > I strongly oppose this patch. It adds far too much complexity to the > org grammar. Representation of numbers is an extremely nasty part of > nearly every language, and I suggest that org steer well clear of > trying to formalize this. I'd like to understand these objections better. Aren't you overstating what is at issue? The patch allows a single keyword option, :tangle-mode, to accept a few different ways of setting file permissions. I'm not sure that amounts to formalizing representation of numbers in Org, or even modifying Org grammar as such. (And I can't think of other parts of Org where this would be relevant, so I wouldn't expect demands for further feature creep.) > With an eye to future portability I suggest > that no special cases be given to something as important for security > as tangle mode without very careful consideration. When you say portability, what are you thinking about? If you're talking about tangling Org-Babel code with other processors than Emacs Org-mode, this seems like fairly trivial functionality to reproduce. In fact, wouldn't this be easier than the current arrangements, which would require the processor to be able to evaluate an arbitrary Emacs Lisp expression outside Emacs? What is the added security problem here, given that file permissions can already be set by tangle mode? I suppose that the greater complexity of the patch provides maintainers with somewhat more opportunities for making code errors. And the greater choice of representations perhaps gives the user more opportunities for making user errors (though speaking strictly for myself, I'm more likely to make those errors calculating octals than using the more intuitive representations Timothy is helpfully making available). But these problems seem marginal to me. Are there others? > Emacs lisp closures have clear semantics in Org and the number syntax > is clear. If users are concerned about the verbosity of (identity > #o0600) they could go with the sorter (or #o0600). But why would anyone want to write a lisp closure a number literal would suffice? It's not what a user would expect. Yours, Christian