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From: Noboru Ota <me@nobiot.com>
To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com>
Cc: orgmode <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Introducing Org-transclusion
Date: Mon, 01 Nov 2021 10:11:27 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87sfwgme9s.fsf@nobiot.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87h7cysjf2.fsf@localhost>

Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:
> Welcome ;)

Thank you.

> You have my +100500 to have this package as part of Org :D

Thank you again :) Is there anything I can/should do to make this
happen?  I would be happy to email the whole package as a "patch" for
code review, if this were the way but I feel that might clutter this
mailing list too much with a large amount of text (?)

> The package may allow several interesting things in Org:
> 1.  An alternative way to structure headings
>     Currently, we have a rigid headline structures in Org and
>     alternative tag-based approaches like Org Roam. Headline
>     transclusion will allow same subtree under several headings (aka
>     file system symlinks).

Org-transclusion will be probably of help here. I didn't think it in
this frame (like symlinks) but it has the :level property to control the
heading level of the transclusion, which can be different to the original.

> 2. A much faster tangle system. If we can directly transclude and sync
>    contents of source blocks with actual programming language buffer,
>    C-c ' can trivially support flycheck-mode and provide a more
>    IDE-like experience while still benefiting from literate programming
>    style.

It has ":src lang" property and can transclude a specific range of
source code into Org's source block. It is essentially read-only copy of
the original, and you can use "C-c C-c" as a normal Org source block to
execute/evaluate it.

For flycheck-mode, I am not sure; I don't use it (I use built-in
flymake).  It may be an interesting experiment for me, too.  One thing
is that transcluded source blocks are read-only.  I think it will
require a bit of work to get the correction to work on both the
transclusion and source buffers.

> 3. Visible #+INCLUDE directives. I recall multiple requests to be able
>    to see the INCLUDEd files right inside source Org buffer.

There is a parallel between #+INCLUDE and #+TRANSCLUDE.  Transclusions
are read-only copy so they can be exported.  I think in many cases they
can work as "visible #+INCLUDE".

But #+TRANSCLUDE does not support all the features #+INCLUDE
support. For example, noweb to include yet another block of text has
been reported to output an error.

> 4. Dynamic Org files like agenda views, but made of transcluded
>    headlines. Such files can be kept in Org mode with all its features.

Maybe... I don't use Org-agenda, so it didn't occur to me to test this
use case.  

> Transculation has been requested many times by different users. Some
> relevant links:
> - https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/51814/embed-org-task-list-from-other-subtree
> - https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/dz5xeb/is_there_a_way_to_include_an_org_file_in_another/
> - https://www.reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/flxqei/cloningmirroring_a_region_to_some_other_location/fl22ele/
> - https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2020-04/msg00141.html
> - https://emacs.stackexchange.com/questions/57608/split-code-across-multiple-src-blocks
> - https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/help-gnu-emacs/2020-06/msg00151.html
> - https://reddit.com/r/emacs/comments/debean/possible_to_embed_another_org_file_or_entry_in_an/]]

Org-transclusion might provide some steps forward for some of the
desired functionality discussed in these threads.  Especially for the
"cloning" a body of text across multiple buffers, I have factored out
this part and created a stand-alone library called "Text-clone".  It is
available in the same repository at

This separation was born out of a suggestion by alphapapa on Reddit.

I feel that Text-clone can be taken further than the use in
Org-transclusion (I feel that Org-transclusion is only one use case for

> Other attempted implementations:
> - https://github.com/legalnonsense/org-clones
> - https://github.com/magnars/multifiles.el
> - https://github.com/vspinu/lentic
> - https://github.com/whacked/transclusion-minor-mode

Yes, I have looked at some of them and also this question from John
Kitchen, recorded by alphapapa: 

I also looked at https://github.com/gregdetre/emacs-freex. 

Org-clones have given me some inspirations.  Multifiles looked to be too
complicated for me to understand and abandoned for a long time. I was
not aware of Lentic.  I dismissed Transclusion-minor-mode because it
requires a server.

Org-transclusion is rather simple. It only requires Emacs 27.1 and Org 9.4.

> Best,
> Ihor

  reply	other threads:[~2021-11-01  9:12 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 36+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-10-30 11:51 Noboru Ota
2021-10-30 12:31 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-11-01  9:17   ` Noboru Ota
2021-10-30 13:59 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-11-01  9:11   ` Noboru Ota [this message]
2021-11-01 13:24     ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-11-06 10:43       ` Noboru Ota
2021-11-08 15:07         ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-11-10 21:09           ` Noboru Ota
2021-11-14  8:22             ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-11-14  9:35               ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-11-01 20:07     ` Thomas Paulsen
2021-11-01 21:01       ` Noboru Ota
2021-11-02  5:17     ` Timothy
2021-11-05 19:53       ` Noboru Ota
2021-11-05 21:56         ` Tim Cross
2021-11-05 23:20           ` Timothy
2021-11-06 10:14             ` Noboru Ota
2021-11-06 10:22               ` Tim Cross
2021-11-06 11:49                 ` Noboru Ota
2021-11-05 17:11 ` Uwe Brauer
2021-11-05 19:24   ` Noboru Ota
2021-11-05 20:15     ` Uwe Brauer
2021-11-05 23:02       ` Noboru Ota
2021-11-06 14:01         ` Uwe Brauer
2021-11-06 14:25         ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-11-06 14:54           ` Noboru Ota
2021-11-06 15:49             ` Uwe Brauer
2021-11-07  7:34               ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-11-07  8:07                 ` Uwe Brauer
2021-11-07  8:30                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-11-07 13:25                     ` Uwe Brauer
2021-11-07 13:41                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-11-07 13:56                         ` Uwe Brauer
2021-11-05 19:59   ` Noboru Ota
2021-11-05 20:13     ` Uwe Brauer

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