From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Dan Davison Subject: Re: [PROPOSAL] Quick and easy installation instructions Date: Sun, 26 Sep 2010 19:22:25 +0100 Message-ID: <87r5ggs6u6.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> References: <87tylcy6gw.fsf@stats.ox.ac.uk> <87hbhc5rtt.fsf@Rainer.invalid> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Return-path: Received: from [140.186.70.92] (port=49572 helo=eggs.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ozvru-0000Im-PH for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2010 14:22:36 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ozvrs-0006V3-RI for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2010 14:22:34 -0400 Received: from markov.stats.ox.ac.uk ([163.1.210.1]:39610) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Ozvrs-0006Uu-I7 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 26 Sep 2010 14:22:32 -0400 In-Reply-To: <87hbhc5rtt.fsf@Rainer.invalid> (Achim Gratz's message of "Sun, 26 Sep 2010 19:37:34 +0200") List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Achim Gratz Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Achim Gratz writes: > Dan Davison writes: > >> I think that the documentation concerning installation should be made >> more user-friendly. My impression is that the Org manual makes all this >> sound much harder than it needs to be, and I suspect that this is an >> entry-barrier for new Org users. For example, the first thing users >> encounter in the manual section is an instruction to edit a Makefile. > > Agreed. It was easy enough to follow for me, but I can see that others > may find it too technical. Hi Achim, OK, so we're agreed. But your points below don't seem to describe a less technical route. Could you describe the less technical version of the instructions for the method that you are advocating? Dan > >> I suggest we provide a "quick and easy installation" section to the >> manual, that shows people how to start using the latest version of >> Org-mode without messing about with compilation and installation (I >> rarely compile and have never "installed" Org-mode). It would also be >> helpful to include notes on how to find your ".emacs" file. > > Just as a counter-point, I always compile and install (even bleeding > edge, that just goes into a different place) because that allows me to > separate production from experimental code more easily. > >> This would involve the following changes to section 1.2 Installation: >> >> 1. The first thing it should say would be along the lines of >> "A reasonably recent version of Org is included in Emacs. Are you >> sure you need the latest version of Org? If not, skip to the >> Activation section and start using Org!" > > Don't assume what version of Emacs the user may have and it may be > configured in crazy ways, too. To read the instructions one would > already have had to find and go to orgmode.org, so there is little > further effort to fix them up with the latest stable version. Right now > there is no official Emacs release that uses Org 7.x, for instance. > >> 2. Then we should lay out an easy route and a full route: >> 1. Quick and easy >> Download, set your load-path and (require 'org-install) >> Optionally compile (within emacs[1]?) >> Suggested text below. > > I'd really suggest putting it into site-lisp as that removes the need to > muck about with load-path (which isn't customizable...), the dangers of > which you demonstrate yourself: > >> (setq load-path (cons "~/path/to/org-mode/lisp" load-path) > > (yes, just a missing closing paren). The other thing of course is that > by putting it there all other users on the system will benefit from it. > That's a plus even under Windows. > > While we are at it, I think both org and org-babel have enough files to > better go into sub-directories (maybe org-install should stay on > top-level). > > > Achim.