From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com>
To: Bastien Guerry <bzg@gnu.org>
Cc: c.buhtz@posteo.jp, Emacs orgmode <Emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>,
Richard Stallman <rms@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: Links to javascript-based websites from orgmode.org: Paypal and Github
Date: Sat, 26 Feb 2022 13:50:09 +0800 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87r17q2n3i.fsf@localhost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <871qzqg81c.fsf@gnu.org>
CCing RMS as this discussion might be of interest for him.
The previous emails in the thread are in
https://list.orgmode.org/b074b191-b06f-928d-284c-7a7ee5d97ce8@ctpowe.net/T/#u
Bastien Guerry <bzg@gnu.org> writes:
> Thanks for raising this issues.
>
> Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com> writes:
>
>> Fair point. Paypal requires non-free javascript. Github as well,
>> AFAIK.
>
> I've removed the GitHub Sponsors and Paypal links from orgmode.org.
To clarify, I did not intend to make you remove those links, but rather
wanted to hear your opinion and open a discussion.
As Michael pointed out, https://my.fsf.org/donate itself contains a
paypal payment option:
>> PayPal (not recommended: requires nonfree JavaScript)
Given the apparent contradictory statement in the GNU Coding Standards
(section 8), I feel that either we misunderstand something or the
standards should be updated adding guidelines for the donation services.
Donations (maybe except certain cryptocurrencies) are inherently
non-free because even for direct bank transfers users are often forced
to use bank "security" apps. At the same time, limiting the donation
options will do a lot of harm to FSF projects - cryprocurrency entry
barriers are too high for many users to donate even if they wish to and
not all the countries allow crypto legally.
The entry barriers are important. From my own experience, compared to
just bank details, some online payment made a difference in my decisions
to donate. Easy and familiar web services really facilitate actual
donations (as well as feedback from new users).
I wish there were more easy donation options for an ordinary user to
donate to FSF projects without a need to rely on non-free software. Note
that even liberapay, while providing bank transfer payments, also offers
paypal. Yet, it is the best option I am aware of. Maybe FSF could step
up providing such service?
> I've not removed the link to https://liberapay.com: I suppose it is
> usable without requiring non-free Javascript, but I've not checked.
> If someone wants to check, that'd be appreciated.
I just tried to setup a payment via liberapay using firefox with librejs
extension. I was unable to complete the card payment. It appears that
card payment service liberapay is using requires non-free javascript. I
might be wrong though. It was the first time I actually tried using
liberapay.
In any case, given FSF website providing paypal option, liberapay should
not be an issue. But it leaves us with no real option to allow _easy_
donations yet committing to FSF guidelines.
> I've not removed every links to github.com on orgmode.org: e.g. the
> link to TEC's homepage at the bottom of the website is still here.
>
> The reason is that browsing TEC's GitHub profile does not require
> non-free Javascript: I can browse it fine with M-x eww.
> I guess we shall remove references to non-free software (like the
> Sublime Text editor - I will do this later on.)
Sounds reasonable.
>> However, WORG contains links to various blogs, reddit,
>> stackoverflow, and even youtube and it feels right. I notice that I
>> am confused. I would like to hear Bastien's opinion on the topic.
>
> Here is my view on this: the orgmode.org website is part of the GNU
> project because Org is part of the GNU project, hence the root pages
> of https://orgmode.org should follow the GNU standards.
>
> Worg is different: it is a community-driven documentation about Org.
> Even though worg contents are licensed under GNU FDL, they are not
> part of the GNU project.
>
> If needed, we can make this clearer on the website or even host worg
> on a dedicated domain name.
If we really want to be very strict about following FSF, we might advice
users about alternative ways to view youtube (invidious/youtube-dl). I
just tried stackoverflow and reddit via librejs. The links there can be
opened and be read. I do not think that we need to care much about
commenting.
Best,
Ihor
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2022-02-26 5:51 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 104+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2022-02-25 11:29 Communication problems and possible problems with the website c.buhtz
2022-02-25 12:20 ` Byung-Hee HWANG
2022-02-25 12:25 ` Russell Adams
2022-02-25 12:38 ` c.buhtz
2022-02-25 13:12 ` Russell Adams
2022-02-25 12:57 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-02-26 9:09 ` Bastien
2022-02-25 12:30 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-02-25 12:48 ` c.buhtz
2022-02-25 14:18 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-02-25 14:24 ` c.buhtz
2022-02-25 15:08 ` Russell Adams
2022-02-26 9:19 ` Bastien
2022-02-25 15:14 ` Links to javascript-based websites from orgmode.org: Paypal and Github (was: Communication problems and possible problems with the website) Ihor Radchenko
2022-02-25 15:38 ` Michael Powe
2022-02-25 17:39 ` Links to javascript-based websites from orgmode.org: Paypal and Github Bastien Guerry
2022-02-26 5:50 ` Ihor Radchenko [this message]
2022-02-26 8:57 ` Bastien
2022-02-26 15:18 ` Jean Louis
2022-02-27 17:18 ` Bastien Guerry
2022-02-27 17:32 ` Neil Jerram
2022-02-27 4:11 ` Richard Stallman
2022-02-27 17:57 ` Bastien
2022-02-27 4:43 ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2022-03-20 11:27 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-03-21 1:22 ` Bradley M. Kuhn
2022-02-27 11:29 ` Max Nikulin
2022-02-27 12:58 ` Timothy
2022-02-27 14:25 ` Michael Powe
2022-03-20 6:31 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-18 1:29 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-18 9:51 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-18 14:31 ` Bastien
2022-06-19 15:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-06-20 0:13 ` briangpowell
2022-06-20 1:22 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-20 2:11 ` briangpowell
2022-06-20 2:35 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-27 3:43 ` Richard Stallman
2022-06-27 10:11 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-28 3:25 ` Richard Stallman
2022-06-28 3:35 ` Vikas Rawal
2022-07-02 3:33 ` Richard Stallman
2022-07-02 16:23 ` Vikas Rawal
2022-07-04 3:39 ` Richard Stallman
2022-07-04 4:32 ` Timothy
2022-07-04 12:38 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-04 17:48 ` Michael Powe
2022-07-06 2:50 ` Richard Stallman
2022-07-06 14:42 ` Hendursaga
2022-07-08 3:33 ` Richard Stallman
2022-07-08 4:32 ` Tim Cross
2022-07-08 4:48 ` tomas
2022-07-08 5:25 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2022-07-11 3:16 ` Richard Stallman
2022-07-11 4:37 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2022-06-28 7:02 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2022-06-28 8:23 ` Tim Cross
2022-06-30 3:09 ` Richard Stallman
2022-06-30 18:21 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2022-07-01 3:34 ` Richard Stallman
2022-07-01 3:53 ` Tim Cross
2022-07-01 17:54 ` Michael Powe
2022-07-01 18:42 ` Samuel Banya
2022-07-02 17:02 ` Jeremie Juste
2022-07-01 3:59 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-02 3:32 ` Richard Stallman
2022-07-02 3:56 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-02 7:52 ` Thomas Dye
2022-07-02 8:43 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-02 16:45 ` Thomas S. Dye
2022-07-04 12:31 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-05 3:01 ` Richard Stallman
2022-07-05 3:34 ` Tim Cross
2022-07-05 8:45 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2022-07-06 2:52 ` Richard Stallman
2022-07-06 7:15 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2022-07-07 7:25 ` Richard Stallman
2022-07-06 17:55 ` Thomas S. Dye
2022-07-07 9:53 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-07 16:02 ` Thomas S. Dye
2022-06-27 22:42 ` Tom Gillespie
2022-06-27 23:42 ` Tim Cross
2022-06-28 1:46 ` Michael Powe
2022-06-28 1:54 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-06-28 19:48 ` Michael Powe
2022-06-28 2:29 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-03 23:31 ` Jean Louis
2022-07-04 0:11 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-02-26 8:21 ` c.buhtz
2022-02-26 9:05 ` Bastien
2022-02-26 9:13 ` Communication problems and possible problems with the website Bastien
2022-02-25 14:26 ` Russell Adams
2022-02-26 8:58 ` Bastien
2022-02-26 15:16 ` Jean Louis
2022-02-27 6:56 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-02-27 17:17 ` Bastien Guerry
2022-02-27 18:25 ` Tim Cross
2022-02-27 23:15 ` Timothy
2022-02-28 13:51 ` c.buhtz
2022-03-20 6:44 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-02-27 17:10 ` Bastien
[not found] <621b1e76.1c69fb81.2121d.679b@mx.google.com>
2022-02-28 5:41 ` Links to javascript-based websites from orgmode.org: Paypal and Github Richard Stallman
2022-02-28 15:06 ` Michael Powe
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