From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id UNj+HksZT2K9XAAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 07 Apr 2022 19:03:07 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id gF3TF0sZT2JnEAEAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 07 Apr 2022 19:03:07 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6E6AB3DD50 for ; Thu, 7 Apr 2022 19:03:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:47528 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ncVXF-0008SN-I0 for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2022 13:03:05 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:42846) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ncVSF-0003bV-T0 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2022 12:57:56 -0400 Received: from sanpietro.red-bean.com ([45.79.25.59]:55786) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1ncVSD-0002Jr-QY for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 07 Apr 2022 12:57:55 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=red-bean.com; s=202005newsp; h=Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID: In-Reply-To:Date:Reply-To:References:Subject:Cc:To:From:Sender: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description; bh=Bcj/FgcZCiSXLm4HVDd5+abmKPRtHzD8FzxLhZVkvJw=; t=1649350672; x=1650560272; b=FiJWt/jtuft3BCg4Y2TYYBZsd73pEPWQp6qbPdr0UfzcZYehnXn+GeSdk/xXNl+G0nzu+KND2zI 9t3O7FSUT3fRRKqPjsTdXPO6ORqrG1YlO9u4r81toSyvK0LVDCVqkjjKjVq//7yRevAbAjlbbJjL9 NLrqo9jWdKhdlz04lXQ4DFgxaOio9HfZeSQSN2LxcMd/4Fh6z+d90mU1vsOvx3rFMt9e/aI7bozDz KVNtA5ddlXUyd+N9edRHJ+f8PMVfmMPwpfFGCjORVTZibsJ1RAC/cqe8UDbN5xF6RIQtOweS/OlFs i6C3CCWnDYDrbJKzFgOmgxeSoDtQrirB57sQ==; Received: from [12.106.183.66] (port=21003 helo=hummy) by sanpietro.red-bean.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (Exim 4.94.2) (envelope-from ) id 1ncVSA-004fgx-8D; Thu, 07 Apr 2022 16:57:51 +0000 From: Karl Fogel To: Ihor Radchenko Subject: Re: Removing obsolete function `org-truely-invisible-p'. References: <87czmcccrp.fsf@red-bean.com> <87h7b5rm6f.fsf@localhost> <87fsmx8x62.fsf@red-bean.com> <87v8vpf4fl.fsf@localhost> <8735iskegy.fsf@red-bean.com> <87ee2cf45u.fsf@localhost> <87czhvv0cu.fsf@red-bean.com> <87czht7alk.fsf@localhost> Date: Thu, 07 Apr 2022 11:57:50 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87czht7alk.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Thu, 07 Apr 2022 12:59:03 +0800") Message-ID: <87r16896gh.fsf@red-bean.com> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) Emacs/29.0.50 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Received-SPF: pass client-ip=45.79.25.59; envelope-from=kfogel@red-bean.com; helo=sanpietro.red-bean.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Reply-To: Karl Fogel Cc: Org Mode Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1649350987; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Bcj/FgcZCiSXLm4HVDd5+abmKPRtHzD8FzxLhZVkvJw=; b=R1kg38qbXks8yClOyK87ffQ2FFxCKi0BHIFUhn+SYkPLPQl2n7R55TqibmWD6sTIJE4ibz SH0vyOhNhnJl2Qy5SHUmBX2IKJqKtuXjRo7kGOLDYeuYFMV2FU4Au0FB3GOiSALCC5AP5N U8vLuREGwKzNkQ0DgPl3pYFcmT8sVy18S+33yyi8FJNp/ydHFvLob73SU6hrgxVivenVH6 rBXVF6TcsFb7Vjv2X5gw6daKUsKEBpN6jXAbTTUxF/UBOfNtOUismFDUA2M94agh5V77jD LImAd9BscLtbchS6MxNmUvgb/qxD2hI5kmA5ExO8Y+2zAcPf0i/UNVdOoJTukg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1649350987; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=n6fZc7qNAgXmxLXJIBerxT8zjxgUS0FyfHDfYIyAVRmjBYL6Z5dWwAdAasOEb4m0DWa4zd g2Fy7AD2xRUf+amiiXAM1E715BBlBw8a58sp+7hq0u32/J+VFSQsPnoHIY2ah+Z1ivuW9m I3f0wqv8WHUOskD0jw2bcXUAZMiT+q3nlKHMIKA+V6JRFp3b9K/cL7Ts4wWSsui/PanTVb xaaj4PW7PGbQ+u8vF2OufPznzZ/KNyoR+qoug1TkmCBavv3j/38cLuximoHxv8SaBpuBmF Fx5Us+xfiKCG349SdgAwAYh2/gYJTS/7O8UvuhNXk5Wt+ixSn0eWIrkr/vRkUA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=red-bean.com header.s=202005newsp header.b="FiJWt/jt"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=red-bean.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 6.84 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=red-bean.com header.s=202005newsp header.b="FiJWt/jt"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=red-bean.com (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 6E6AB3DD50 X-Spam-Score: 6.84 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: Ol791BaEWYIG On 07 Apr 2022, Ihor Radchenko wrote: >Karl Fogel writes: > >> Unfortunately, the 'CONTRIBUTE' file at the top level of the >> Org >> Mode source tree gives incomplete guidance on commit messages >> (it >> just says to follow what Emacs does, so I did that). I didn't >> realize that >> https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html#commit-messages >> has >> further, slightly different guidance. > >Could you elaborate? > >We have the following in etc/CONTRIBUTE: > >>>> * Main contribution rules >>>> ... >>>> See >>>> [[https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html][worg/org-contribute]] >>>> for guidance on how to contribute effectively. Sure, I'll elaborate. The "..." in your quoted text above contains, among other things, this item: - Org mode no longer uses ChangeLog entries to document changes. Instead, special commit messages are used, as described in the `CONTRIBUTE' file in the main Emacs repository. That item is just one in a list of several items in section 4 (which is under the top-level heading "Main contribution rules"). At the very end of the "Main contribution rules" top-level section comes this line: See [[https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html][worg/org-contribute]] for guidance on how to contribute effectively. So when I went searching in CONTRIBUTE specifically for guidance on commit messages, I searched for the string "commit message". That took me to the item I quote above, which states pretty clearly that the Emacs guidelines apply here. It does not state that there is any other source of guidance about commit messages, nor does it say anything to indicate that Org Mode has commit message guidelines that are a superset of (i.e., more complicated than) Emacs's guidelines. The string "commit message" does not appear anywhere else in Org Mode's CONTRIBUTE file. So, naturally, after I read that item, I assumed that I was ready to write the commit message, since I already knew Emacs's guidelines. Meanhwile, the https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contribute.html page is a bit long, and it starts out with a bunch of very generic guidance that is not useful to developer contributing a code patch. (I'm not saying that material isn't useful, by the way. I think it's good to have it there. I'm just saying it doesn't provide anything useful to one particular demographic. But it's still good because someone might be making some other kind of contribution.) In that page, the part about "Commit messages and ChangeLog entries" starts about three-quarters of the way down. Virtually none of the material preceding it had anything to do with my circumstances, and since I had just seen very clear guidance (in CONTRIBUTE) about how to write commit messages, I timed out before making it that far. A good solution to this would be to revise the item in CONTRIBUTE to make it clear that there is special Org Mode guidance on commit messages that goes beyond what Emacs itself wants. I was too tired to go through the process to contribute that change though, so instead I wrote this long email :-). >Thanks! Merged as d80aa2776 to main. Thank you very much! Best regards, -Karl