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[180.150.91.8]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d4sm6091558pjs.1.2021.04.16.11.43.12 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 16 Apr 2021 11:43:13 -0700 (PDT) User-agent: mu4e 1.4.15; emacs 28.0.50 From: Timothy To: org-mode-email Subject: Concerns about community contributor support Message-ID: <87pmyuyssi.fsf@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 17 Apr 2021 02:43:09 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::1029; envelope-from=tecosaur@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x1029.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1618598633; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=lylKhvUU27tkyUP/I6pwnoxoFm4pg8bHPKMACOfPyxI=; b=oDMb4YFKSeUn1Gnx0Ox68xhN4v38U3ZqXVhLzBDkUCyKo/7p7yjqPLIVu90fXNYE5fvmFR 5MoQMMYd5wT0qRHYviyzA/RktYtdx4L2Zke9LWvcVvOrwaeMEnaqp3AzRNlzF18uT64tdf PW9qBzv+HHx3ID98jFqJduT8W4YF02+bPXkeTAbCds2ToXg8Lhp9YSZ3Te3nyjwOM1I4W2 Gj9259ONHa6BxH9LrorCzYptRM8peUIfyFB5CyzCON+VWNf4++9UPfgTUSPB237f5/tLjL OV3OFMJ051Tb4p6L3xzOutL6nyVPQfWPe2OhuffgDZvHuMMPuDl7MFz5BUT9sw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1618598633; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=du2sGpKAFk/bSkMThZe6gwI9ee4PAF9a4/fXXVn8P/OGYnUAWWSh7FaSDmSxPR1v+3K/+4 1w84zxZqfvt8uec0GnBqWxcAP8CI0FWqXIr18nXm2hOULZNmnPpGMFIza9/HGs/ynJUsg9 70h5gBNsZZmci9kOUttx/f6vktkKeCP8XzWCOsNPWs6mVyXdIZdYNoICVW6ULpTCUtFef6 Ql20FIUHWPbBdsJxh8NhaYMqyyCkrGlgBLsySF1ZwvmNuVagUFl3H4v5msWLoRXYs659TB j2BQPSVk0xv5M2n6PG/yT0ExiM/fnp97p/pss80cHe6v7AxheBChoEuyUsVhpg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=DSMEttPK; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.14 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20161025 header.b=DSMEttPK; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: C5CEC1DCE6 X-Spam-Score: -3.14 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: EyJQekGlmWtn Dear all, Over the last few months I have felt an increasing level of concern over the lack of response to patches. This email is rather long, but please, bear with me. The goal is to start a discussion on the problems this creates, and consider short and long-term solutions. When both community and maintainer response to new patches is lacking, many first-time contributors are actively dissuaded from contributing again. Furthermore, each patch represents a considerable time investment --- particularly if it's from an individual who is new to the mailing list / patch workflow. Org-mode is not "done" and still requires the support of long-term contributors to keep improving, anything that discourages them from contributing back to the community needs to be carefully understood and resolved if we want to continue harmoniously. Take for example Jay Bosamiya's patch from September last year [1]. It appears to be his first submission to this mailing list, and yet there has been absolutely no response to it. There are currently 24 other patches listed on the updates.orgmode.org which have seen no response from this community, some of which are from first-time contributors. There are 36 other patches with at least two replies, but yet to be resolved. Bastien's updates.orgmode.org is fantastic in helping prevent contributions slip through the cracks, but it is also highlighting the lack of community response to a significant number of patches. This mailing list was my first experience with an email+patch based contribution workflow. Thankfully, I received prompt and friendly feedback and was guided through the adjustments needed so it could be merged in a timely manner. Should my patch have been similarly ignored, I would have been quite disheartened; it is not an overstatement to say I would likely have written off this mailing list and not tried again. Simply put, this is not good enough. This does a disservice to those that have dedicated time and effort to try and better this project only to be ignored. Not rejected, not even acknowledged, nothing. It is imperative that this community improves our response to contributions for the long-term health of this project. Do not take me to be a doomsayer; I have faith that Org is going to keep on improving regardless. However, failing to welcome and encourage contributors has a deleterious effect on the health of the project. I do not blame the maintainers in the slightest. As Bastien brought up in a recent worg discussion, as time goes on we find ourselves taking on more and more life responsibilities. Therefore it's in our best interest to delegate some of the maintainer responsibilities to consistently active, and supportive community members to "pass down the torch" so the community and platform can continue to expand with grace and care. What can the community do? I don't know of any silver bullet, but I believe there are some steps which could help, namely: + The development and publication of "reasonable expectations" which contributors should have when submitting a patch, and that the maintainers should strive to uphold (e.g. "expect a response within "). + A community effort/sprint to respond to those patches that have been seemingly abandoned + Onboarding of new maintainers, when reasonable and suitable candidates exist (I'd very willingly throw my hat in the ring for consideration). If it's too much work, spread it out as much as possible. If any other ideas come to mind, please share them so we can discuss them further. Finally, it's not all bad. While this discussion has called for some criticism, I don't want to give the false impression that I think nothing is working and nobody is supporting contributors. This is not the case at all, there are some standout individuals one the mailing list who have been fantastic. Kudos to you all. My best to everyone, Timothy [1] https://orgmode.org/list/CAOywxZg1cBL07THLZXHBBCzm6te2vMtqnmM0w63331gybrjZuw@mail.gmail.com/ [2] https://orgmode.org/list/87h7qi2l2m.fsf@gmail.com/