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[2001:44b8:31f2:bb00:ee2f:b47d:118e:a9bd]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t186sm1059965pfc.122.2021.12.09.19.03.40 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Thu, 09 Dec 2021 19:03:41 -0800 (PST) References: <87o85vbb9a.fsf@localhost> <87y24zs40r.fsf@posteo.net> <87lf0zb6fq.fsf@localhost> <87ilw3419x.fsf@gmail.com> <87o85v9la3.fsf@localhost> <87a6he4ngu.fsf@gmail.com> <87k0gf5hud.fsf@localhost> <87tufjt8r1.fsf@gmail.com> <87zgpbuktz.fsf@web.de> <87wnkenjhx.fsf@ucl.ac.uk> <87ee6ltl37.fsf@web.de> User-agent: mu4e 1.7.5; emacs 28.0.90 From: Tim Cross To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Concrete suggestions to improve Org mode third-party integration :: an afterthought following Karl Voit's Orgdown proposal Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2021 13:42:45 +1100 In-reply-to: <87ee6ltl37.fsf@web.de> Message-ID: <87pmq5upo8.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2607:f8b0:4864:20::62c (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::62c; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-x62c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -12 X-Spam_score: -1.3 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1639105473; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=KyTqMkgsQBZBQ35oPEcPjGIyw8rUeE8mpkVzO5tfM7g=; b=uPTfrawEK1zEnO73R3q8xEn//e3QMmFlAS8DWfQBP/y92S5gQz4zLOwl/NQsKxr3ZijgOE /flTR2QrkLDIYyhG1JfjvxS9q9aDXYQuKlUIHBZ2WY3OnTZoaCX4WmN2ZLwXmXb+Lef0ha x4UiBdDltUKmGvm5Q61ZGoED9IHKNhEljKuIkNZPyg8y55mUMIfE2Azr7vzLWHWzKxI8CT INmlwkx031ERghlFaQkO2rVAQs10vlvXShW3tkq9eqx0J+RphHwFsBIro6laNflNzJyw43 WwSeI6sIKTwu13CoEZWA28DDDg7HeQxOnH+r13jDWGrKRTLgrz7p0CsY03GS2A== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1639105473; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=rF2LgfKETEingvETWRkErwws8QQAr0gbFQC23Y3QCQfTjYsdQiauPyjwekOzQ8L7HCOMpr GiBpawlmtoniG0nTKTQhuKCKBZoJ6pNvTmkII2RDMNL7gRansfwVAnXwgR72ZxAu2wCfj/ mIDWSV6CcdtKSdynqwHRX0M7MbiOjFY4OqK18jC4sLy3MKdKovIkVjDgvBw63cYCehsKJl 6z7dv0FW+4uqjGzS1QDVd13t5goBJew4+gxPK4fTKYi1SAPS3oJmPKRjoinSLtMwXIhSem 6CkmEXAzntsVlgARR+tj2XFFM+O5fe5kVWqbGjhW6n0UhLv1snhhHtQJmmx7kQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=K42WhrxQ; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.16 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=K42WhrxQ; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 32DD929DD2 X-Spam-Score: -4.16 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: oDWPt2L/dd1o "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" writes: > [[PGP Signed Part:Undecided]] > > Russell Adams writes: > >> Did Org break your Org editing experience in Emacs for your Org files, >> or did this change just break some of the finer formatting details of >> your exported Org file? > > The change to electric indent broke my workflow badly (always having to > undo the indentation after every new headline), and it took long until I > found out how to avoid that. > That is probably a good example of how change can be imposed by external events outside the control of org-mode. While I would agree that more analysis of that change may have resulted in better initial documentation and in turn, less inconvenience to users. that is only obvious now with the benefit of hindsight. The fact it was a change triggered by a change in Emacs rather than a change initiated by org demonstrates that at times, org has to adapt to its evolving environment. While this change may have 'broken' your workflow, the previous behaviour was breaking other users workflows because org did not honour electric-indent-mode and was not consistent with other core emacs modes.