From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Bastien Subject: Re: Survey: changing a few default settings for Org 9.4 Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2020 12:57:14 +0100 Message-ID: <87o8tuyelh.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87pnebf2ku.fsf@gnu.org> <87k14i7r0s.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:49572) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1j4Nyi-0002Aa-NR for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 19 Feb 2020 06:57:21 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87k14i7r0s.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> (Nicolas Goaziou's message of "Wed, 19 Feb 2020 12:30:59 +0100") List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane-mx.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" To: Nicolas Goaziou Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Hi Nicolas, Nicolas Goaziou writes: > This is not a good default, at least for beginners, because Org provides > a better solution out of the box. There are also better solutions > outside Org (e.g., Yasnippet). Well, let's agree to disagree on this one. org-tempo and C-c C- fill two different use cases: the first one for fast block insertion while typing, the second one for e.g. when the region is selected. I don't think allowing org-tempo "shadows" C-c C-, in any fashion. > It is only valuable for existing users, who relied on this feature, and > don't want to switch. It's perfectly understandable, but it is also fair > to assume they can add (require 'org-module) to their own configuration. > _Removing_ the module, OTOH, is subtle. M-x customize-option RET org-modules seems okay to me. > By the way, this does not belong to the same category as other > defcustoms discussed. This is only tangential to "how does Org should > look and feel by default". It relates to: should Org provide multiple > snippet extensions, knowing this is not a central feature, and Org is > often seen as bloated by Emacs devs? I don't think so, no matter how > useful this feature can be for some users. I'll be more receptive to this argument when animate-birthday-present is not in Emacs's core anymore :) That said, I'm receptive to the idea that Org could be more focused to its core functionalities. E.g., I think we could be more minimalistic about the ol-* and ox-* libraries in Org. Also, we should get rid of org-modules altogether now that Emacs has a packaging system. I'd suggest a discussion on this for after 9.4. -- Bastien