From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id +OAdBGmHnWAJOQAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 13 May 2021 22:09:13 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id 4KdpO2iHnWCEHAAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 13 May 2021 20:09:12 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5DCC214E58 for ; Thu, 13 May 2021 22:09:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:38972 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lhHdu-00037c-Tp for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 13 May 2021 16:09:10 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:56306) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lhHdO-00037U-LJ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 13 May 2021 16:08:38 -0400 Received: from mout.web.de ([212.227.15.4]:50765) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1lhHdM-0001jp-Ix for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 13 May 2021 16:08:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=web.de; s=dbaedf251592; t=1620936504; bh=aMsBM0mQYwAxfGLle+wABEB42IwQK4iM+ShRkNN8d74=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:References:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-reply-to:Date; b=nrBDc6fKEBn1bCkUGDBLHQVGiXv9bgzBEvJAaTUvnzTKxOGyMLtEh8qDNYJXoVVMl 6IfpdmCj8fXHph/RwmW25tRsBcKlQ6MSLvAOwMmsdP3M7X4pAu6bpqS/CuSVKkP3hu zXDG58M/sQlYQRaYtuEyrqgx+82WHeMxnuwBAsDA= X-UI-Sender-Class: c548c8c5-30a9-4db5-a2e7-cb6cb037b8f9 Received: from fluss ([84.165.17.25]) by smtp.web.de (mrweb003 [213.165.67.108]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 0LaTdP-1lDl5z2jnj-00mMx9; Thu, 13 May 2021 22:08:24 +0200 References: <87im3qj092.fsf@iki.fi> <87mtt2jz4h.fsf@web.de> <87h7j9hu0l.fsf@web.de> <87zgx0gug3.fsf@web.de> <87zgwy952d.fsf@iki.fi> User-agent: mu4e 1.4.15; emacs 28.0.50 From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" To: Arthur Miller Subject: Re: The fate of ditaa.jar (9.4.5.) 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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: Jarmo Hurri , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1620936552; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=kH+UBE2IP0hFFBGkfkTt3jl+NrSfJ+LqNOyL5wbJM5E=; b=qL4iuBAjmFzGILFM9U9E7Adf+zYzNk3ug5mkqScfU9OMBhhEWNQBPWj+nQwGiVFUoXz5sr xh/Hc9D/DwFGmIOH1dzPl6u6B8hm0NF3+3/p/RM399r0fLVwMZOo5LKj1OA2/qsG+dn7ZF jjXgGjIYdpJO93vpncsRFbysq4iaA6dKNGMdOZbiwa+Oft3jUkHjGaX/Cn67gqF1PTb9nn 1xBV3q7WfNmKu/YBQFQrF6o1css+WDMl1WtR7l95fcnGjeFE6Snfx4qkXRdmeqV7vSgnhg 12eTxWD+IvdWJnJpLD/x7A9HR+WQIFCgXqOELrPkqZKK+e/hbcDMMr2UbKNUVg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1620936552; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=TaIFOyBh8zgz7FEl/u8A1whipqLWFn9dr+TDCTcYrhXY8vIRUCucF9igqLpGlIRE9R9A1T QlLANHDiIHcGEN+apN5hwiYC8ASkVfjqCaydxu1x7ZtwJ0ERH6u5qEzu28H6iQazdtYMA0 89w7L4YgE0eGY9ts7LOMSawl6aMP4YBd5kDCrrlXXVhppnL4tKngYlDdJvJsED28s2SbTO G0JPxTipuTSHoEzcjPTkZKSsLgMV0ArrcnZStSDltUGt93jSoALD0EABNWtqGczC/q+SIQ SXvD5HYpUtpcsTrVzTFLRZbZCZGvKZML/AB46Tf0AOYdulCrwK/3t+onU1CSOA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=web.de header.s=dbaedf251592 header.b=nrBDc6fK; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=web.de; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.25 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=web.de header.s=dbaedf251592 header.b=nrBDc6fK; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=web.de; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 5DCC214E58 X-Spam-Score: -4.25 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: ODjSpLBt7sdx --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Arthur Miller writes: > Jarmo Hurri writes: > >> Greetings. >> >> "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" writes: >> >>> Arthur Miller writes: >>> >>>> By the way, how difficult is to download one file from the internet >>>> (ditaa.jar) if you are an user? >>> >>> That=E2=80=99s not the point. The point is that every single user with = a ditaa >>> block has to do it. >>> >>> Ask the other way round: What is the benefit of removing ditaa from >>> org? If you want to force most current org-ditaa users to unbreak >>> their setup after update, there should be a significant tangible >>> benefit. >> >> I agree. >> >> One thing I like about org is that most things work out of the box. > > If bundled ditaa is not compatible with jre installed on users > computer, or there is no jre installed, and user is not a programmer or > used to Java, how many steps it adds to such a user to sort out why org > does not work for him/her "out of the box"? Just to save some experienced > user an extra step, that probably does not even affect them since they > already have java and ditaa on their computers. The difference is not about the difference between experienced or beginner. The difference is that =E2=80=9Euse your package manager to get J= ava=E2=80=9C or =E2=80=9Eget openjdk=E2=80=9C is an operation that only uses standard in= stallation processes. =E2=80=9EGet this jar-file from somewhere and drop it somewhere and then ch= ange this configuration to point to it=E2=80=9C is not a standard installation action. If Java is missing, org can simply report =E2=80=9Eno java found, please in= stall openjdk from =E2=80=9C and the user can insta= ll it like any other software. This is not the case with ditaa. Ditaa is no standard application with installer/setup/=E2=80=A6, but a jar-file. And removing it breaks existing setups when org-mode is updated. Best wishes, Arne =2D-=20 Unpolitisch sein hei=C3=9Ft politisch sein ohne es zu merken --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQJEBAEBCAAuFiEE801qEjXQSQPNItXAE++NRSQDw+sFAmCdhzcQHGFybmVfYmFi QHdlYi5kZQAKCRAT741FJAPD6xLpD/9hFllumgc4e4jaUa+mPvwvJa4NtxOo4MsS mAf9BVr4i/TC19Wq2Yi9JfJbIQdNkmPcUI7stHaT4/T1vBeDUgG6xS65bik0NIx4 wnIoUnlLpDJVjWWp1D/YOnC5iyyPokga1EfPiqJfyn0Ex6OflB7+yCUFcz+fWYyW dvAqruQ6Tl1opJjz6qdF1CHoUPrIqero3MkDkUTtaV5MSGBO2GiyCJzyqMtHHSDK vZH36qWvX4bQVyqte2a7xDS9jKHSkz9ubz/FuKknGLkXRjWwaDKO0f1E/NHwkt4h 4ZUBkgyBwgqcOn7oV/yizq68BpRF0oBvkrUdvBGSMw0XfkSZg0aF2HnI72OUNSWw GXw1TKolmNlE0jg2KyKnjUNtUrLqBzXfpX9luF1RYMMRgfcWteLLKAJl3MlbVzyK tRUEf+a/wT7e2RidZzolJU3HvxN+O0bVIWeNlVh8T/0CMNz4ALPcSUDiwuHcN9v5 ++rWHBS0JP2ekJnR41Xu/xRM5l0vp69Q1QTimBpNwPrdtfxSce0RG87frK8Ui2Z5 CcZVSclZ/NNWlldpE8W9qQKUZZUMdZBy+6Ut7AcJYwHszhX8bl2+Txvpbd8Egz+E Lc+pRcjx7iQ884vBJ1trw1+PVFmnjOYeNF+XNL9U/KUWV9v7BYBOwp+zW6Tr9E0O x/fHIeJ4B4jEBAEBCAAuFiEE3Si95tmHXKvOSosd3M8NswvBBUgFAmCdhzcQHGFy bmVfYmFiQHdlYi5kZQAKCRDczw2zC8EFSPc9A/4ugTuSqfyKyCeYSPRbWsGN9ZTm DPCsWni8qDxx4q+LZZDBl2zl7qGyjfDyqY8axdYUiGgZ3h05JBIGstD+5l8TmzIF CClLY/YnHmIh/WjFWlKkrgAS1alxyrElZowuRHSuOmYzfbmKh3O+aig7VnT3gcnw 4a9YO9iVD2mt8yadmg== =D8gH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--