From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id ePDfIMazsGE7bgAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 08 Dec 2021 14:31:50 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id ICeXHMazsGF9XAAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 08 Dec 2021 13:31:50 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0F1EC81E8 for ; Wed, 8 Dec 2021 14:31:50 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:60028 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mux2y-0006Yn-M7 for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2021 08:31:48 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:47562) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mux0G-0003v5-Nt for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2021 08:29:01 -0500 Received: from [2a00:1450:4864:20::133] (port=42524 helo=mail-lf1-x133.google.com) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mux0F-0006Qd-3i for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 08 Dec 2021 08:29:00 -0500 Received: by mail-lf1-x133.google.com with SMTP id t26so5591225lfk.9 for ; Wed, 08 Dec 2021 05:28:58 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=0+0igMEDhOnKUsEYt/4AKufHjWrWroaTvY4vd5mTsEA=; b=B8iP4vStcM5j0Y9NHHcn+ebQcBJfC82mCdt8wgMy8j9zHJcLQAAKk3z3Y1uJMlu+as pbs+Y9StIjzsXYVMPBlCpaOgno05tWCenwszeNNkEqYmvUwrB1lfOiuAZ0vDvO7LREp3 Fvjz3JJ49jWxZ4TIC4mPbVsYcZWbRG9XsgritQLTEpD1xGASyZRylg+9cmVeF8Fc4I66 lBwqLJUscE3csdNwyCOD99fA3l55Atdu0vQDfohOb8JudxzSCHXbMIvkRC/xcDP8ndmq EJB8sZxWj2nFT2L38xrywqPTsZaVI+W8uCSqOJ3ye0VUTW4D4OFKws2d1llgGFELo8J9 otxw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=0+0igMEDhOnKUsEYt/4AKufHjWrWroaTvY4vd5mTsEA=; b=qeBTlNXP8SchGp2Ls9M4UTprK0VMwD/WR8gSxPIocQR8od+BNvwqm94ueUtbWnR8/G byGoFta2XMZTSq4AvWQ3gUmsJmJiKEy7/JVu1ENxXJ0j8Ve6R4uKABQxpoHefdOJeEhL GwfQLSgJvI1T4Gm8w56pSH6E5NKqZgG54h/niJ33xSfilvLHwPqRUc0rTLTaBys3Ml03 Q/9DGQ4UttqNtbS2Ql4BuEdr6PNEWW0EgzHBXv+TuhiUXm2MD81iQVWT1Aulm4mXzFwr fP5cljPoqoQppp3UEE4oBW0GKP10eWbREbqZ9xZbMJjTTSHHc8S+i9eeC1jKdRWbaa/1 Tl/Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532O6SrwcZUHDqu8HoQp5hnFHte2EXWJpLDNbvnJmciks5QEkmKl EV7NDegSJgNLB2q95r6JR2I= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyghUQiTzpJQbaCggO2LucUvNMHt7X9izn43jbjkdUbbfEO3XaeLR+1maQ6LCrkW+nII5YuNw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6512:3da1:: with SMTP id k33mr17451215lfv.605.1638970136658; Wed, 08 Dec 2021 05:28:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost ([141.105.67.194]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id f9sm293811lfu.10.2021.12.08.05.28.55 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Wed, 08 Dec 2021 05:28:56 -0800 (PST) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Karl Voit Subject: Re: Concrete suggestions to improve Org mode third-party integration :: an afterthought following Karl Voit's Orgdown proposal In-Reply-To: <2021-12-06T20-41-58@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> References: <87tufnbj1w.fsf@localhost> <87sfv75s4r.fsf@posteo.net> <87o85vbb9a.fsf@localhost> <87y24zs40r.fsf@posteo.net> <87lf0zb6fq.fsf@localhost> <2021-12-06T20-41-58@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> Date: Wed, 08 Dec 2021 21:30:21 +0800 Message-ID: <87mtlb5imq.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2a00:1450:4864:20::133 (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2a00:1450:4864:20::133; envelope-from=yantar92@gmail.com; helo=mail-lf1-x133.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -10 X-Spam_score: -1.1 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1638970310; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=0+0igMEDhOnKUsEYt/4AKufHjWrWroaTvY4vd5mTsEA=; b=flZRhCf/GtDaNn/MhCQgINEIT9y8dLW28H8IBrtzaGjW5XRboBY0wsd+sV/4qqJvq7xUUD UAC/UgoygadpOSvipDuEgdkLIKA94NUXzFwLnO7xG10TT+5MuFe5qK7l10kgRczcMWOVFm oopx32BCn9AblKiQIIF8uDhIceLHj8cJ73tftWYPWfSmZwqVELj84mfKalrdlgQO4Iaedb 1aILStCqzJ9uUlg0XadYrPdrq0mt3PgmWc71kjXbdr85zRF7hG7R3d+j7mgM+njbeFi+hu 2AWtyfx1ThzHTN332gQ7JmN8DEDWjimg3jk7Cy6Mz14cOk0FTDlelPbF6u3zxA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1638970310; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=E2MBBVpYQE27sQIGXSDgTz3GPCFwB/olUgT29/xzxNtOMdpcTg11L3woGyVHZvMMUbwznn D+epwgbMZO84SeuCGmZs/B7j3YCiQcMj/CO7gLjRfnbgBjpyE/yY4tE9G8RPqSGWOi/tE+ 1QkudbQIYPAYzwACt8KfYvB/R53FICda6cUohxaDTA/rs+4vMb8DtgbaoLHdpMahI9zHEe S//d8ao64kSeWRPos3ZX/F7b18HlXfABDa2v4odCvkyvOu1QXwVmUA5uNikcw8dVs+fCEZ gUiQUEufpSiRZ3kf1uhWLAGMtpsPrcBiKg9nCjHAbfJNOMlrgRdIRxgiP42r6Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=B8iP4vSt; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.65 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=B8iP4vSt; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 0F1EC81E8 X-Spam-Score: -3.65 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: kJ1AAGMMDpCo Karl Voit writes: >> Now, we need to understand what kind of people may be looking to >> orgmode.org website. >> >> 1. Existing emacs users >> 2. Non-emacs users interested in plain text markup >> 3. Non-emacs users interested in GTD/project management, etc >> "Org mode: your life in plain text" is somewhat relevant when people >> are looking to manage "life" (typically true for GTD enthusiasts). >> 4. Researchers looking for ipython-like environment >> 5. ??? (Suggestions are welcome) > > I don't think that you can come up with a good website that is able > to serve all of them properly. > If you do want to have a go-to for people who should use the > Org-mode syntax without the GNU/Emacs tool, you need to have a > separate site. There is quite a bit of misunderstanding going on in this thread. I did not suggest to change the orgmode.org website for users who _will never use Emacs_. One of the ideas was rather to make the website more approachable for the listed groups of people and encourage them to use Org mode _for Emacs_. (The other one was related to third-party developers, but it is not what my reply above was about). The message above is simply about how orgmode.org appears in web search results. The current website title looks [for non-Emacs users] like an agglomeration of meaningless words and I suggested to make a little bit of SEO and change the title into something with more readable keywords. That's it. > For Orgdown I had in mind number 2 and 3. For supporting the idea > for Orgdown, I thought of number 1. (Well, that turned out in a > mixed way[1]). I understand and I like the idea of Orgdown in general (and I do not really care about the naming - you already did a great job making it sufficiently unique as can be easily seen in https://duckduckgo.com/?q=3Dorgdown&ia=3Dweb). This thread is my attempt to adapt some ideas you introduced within narrow scope org Org mode for Emacs and our orgmode.org website. We can really benefit from thinking about luring non-Emacs users into Org mode for Emacs and from improving Org grammar documentation (aka Orgdown =E2=88=9E). Best, Ihor