From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms9.migadu.com with LMTPS id wIvSNuIlLGSbKAAASxT56A (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 04 Apr 2023 15:28:03 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id 6H/LNeIlLGQUfgEAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 04 Apr 2023 15:28:02 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7B7C82970F for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2023 15:28:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pjggy-0004w5-Uy; Tue, 04 Apr 2023 09:27:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pjggx-0004uc-NP for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2023 09:27:19 -0400 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pjggv-0001AY-2f for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2023 09:27:19 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 898E72405C5 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2023 15:27:14 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1680614834; bh=ZebaQFz+g4swR8G3d+mqHai0xo8QkaozdKdR8fndGyo=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=AMBi+qtyViTy2C9BWInDUu4xjtTRZOUaFjzRptr6m10X4VztWm397g1loEiJfhDNg o7cOWPyEY3rdxwgAkcMzcuQy90CFtTv5GBUYJVSZzQbwj+USEH6aa+h1AZRWTT4FV6 dTgEmsH+WO1QBNaOLxyW5uUFcmhZ1vNfOFiyU/Lxl/yz0aMAHtnnumrlSITIDWay1n c9lxYkFVmqNTVcWtlflbBrLFQMQdMQhl44pqo18J94VgWeMwA4uY+Yn5a4L4vK2eWv 1UVfs4mfo5ogMo57Z1nbuUEj/lx1miIrdaReWI92ps0/NvkUbUXZeyRUqHq404OPyD ATm8RdA4namtw== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4PrT820LT4z9rxP; Tue, 4 Apr 2023 15:27:14 +0200 (CEST) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Max Nikulin Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] Autoload `org-assert-version' and remove org-loaddefs.el In-Reply-To: References: <874juewk4k.fsf@kyleam.com> <87r0xi5jx7.fsf@gnu.org> <87o7obn0dp.fsf@localhost> <877cuzmreg.fsf@localhost> <87mt3qn0lb.fsf@localhost> <87zg7qjktr.fsf@localhost> Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2023 13:29:36 +0000 Message-ID: <87mt3nai7z.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1680614882; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=FQudGDi4rQpl+5VKezWqwjmT4E1fYklX26QoN5FE93bJKdMnwochqW6Vnv+350QrqtqCge PFx5p8JWS0Wi1mD45dxxeSPIX+kzF+TUhnqNL7aglXoGDIeXtPZ6Hl26u69Var6VjVB62o CWoqcc/JwOuWz4PqPpiAcEVsevvdiiJNniqHDjaVP4DlwMjIF2eWDF5LM2IjGpj5W+niLT wDewIHHB1KxLx9u8r8ZWUU6ZRMZqgeEcdprBCN8a85OHEQLYQtF7n530XU9HHT7O4/Nq4e md8Bx2nX5ZhIfvQOmNrPjXADRrm+lEk2sF6C07ZqJjryslQyHFud8Trrd/5fbA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=AMBi+qty; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1680614882; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=sc6L3iy+vKy/DnEGb+kYA1Y7AJStHcyVspDOT4dvvlw=; b=mKWLsuJj5F0t2fqwE95awJYMQabHtfE1Gy91etpOThfzwhJEvKP0xRKofXm4SrnQU0ZPnf 8a2iaqA+f0oiq9vAZnC0S0GtmnAuNkrIHVMPgU2G15honcV1kh/DpV/UVg0M5WxLD6+fqn 9Y8xMv5AwAVzOqck3Hk3Y/eumzXvlXM/evqYl0ogWFLp69yBkVtH3KfweEO3NVGuxDJIPR 70pEp6WhkzfSxdS5LGfWLvMWASj2UpqZNWhu8dN6ybOd5eqyF7GVQ0/kNnAdIPa2uf6/VY RVQW5o1WK5lmCuJPKhDd3dkJFcIMbbvCwbzCFdZdd5kqxuRvq/XlvegxWxyILQ== X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.71 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=AMBi+qty; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Spam-Score: -4.71 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 7B7C82970F X-TUID: mMgXE+4bazuf Max Nikulin writes: > On 02/04/2023 23:44, Ihor Radchenko wrote: >> 1. The old problem with mixed installation that manifests itself for >> some users >> 2. The new problem with org-assert-version, which appears to be even >> more frequent, despite trying preventing (1). > > I leave decision up to you. My opinion that both cases are weird. With > `org-assert-version' users become aware that Org is broken rather > quickly, without it they have a time bomb that gives impression of bugs > in Org. From my point of view the real issue is that in both cases error > messages are not instructive. The downside of current implementation of > `org-assert-version' is that Org does not work at all. I guess we might try to run a poll. My view on this bug is rather skewed as I saw it too many times. The true number of Org users affected may actually vary. > Ihor will you consider the issue as reproduced if I compile emacs from > some tag in git repository on Debian or Ubuntu, not with provided binary > packages? Sure. Anything Emacs devs can act on. If you can prove that the problem is in Emacs source code, we can report it in https://debbugs.gnu.org/cgi/bugreport.cgi?bug=59882 and let Emacs devs fix things. Currently, it looks like Debian modifies certain aspects of Emacs loading. In such scenario, we cannot expect things to be fixed on Emacs side. > Do you consider the following as similar to package install issue for > Emacs < 29? See the attachment This looks like https://orgmode.org/list/jwvsfkv5s7l.fsf-monnier+emacs@gnu.org But Emacs >26 + package-install specifically arranges unloading the older version of the library. It should not suffer from this (in theory). -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at