From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Titus von der Malsburg Subject: Re: A Microsoftesque detail in org Date: Sun, 17 May 2015 17:39:01 -0700 Message-ID: <87k2w6d8ii.fsf@posteo.de> References: <87382yji8z.fsf@iki.fi> <87lhgqxeq0.fsf@gmx.us> <87k2w754vk.fsf@iki.fi> <874mnaykh0.fsf@gmx.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:57614) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yu95N-0007dc-SC for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 17 May 2015 20:39:15 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yu95J-0008UC-Hn for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 17 May 2015 20:39:13 -0400 Received: from mx02.posteo.de ([89.146.194.165]:50373) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Yu95J-0008Tk-8w for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 17 May 2015 20:39:09 -0400 In-reply-to: <874mnaykh0.fsf@gmx.us> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Rasmus Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 2015-05-17 Sun 14:15, Rasmus wrote: > Hi Jarmo, > > Jarmo Hurri writes: > >> Rasmus writes: > >>> With your behavior you can (i) break the TODO tag; (ii) break the cooki= e; >>> (iii) break the tag. At least (i) and (ii) are quite destructive. >> >> I am not sure what you mean, since a single undo will always heal the >> line again, regardless of where you break it. > > Sure. But that seems orthogonal to the problem at hand. Re (i): Assume > TODO is keyword. We don't know that TO is. Re (ii): [#B] is a cookie. > [#B is not. (iii) iii :tag: is a tag :ta is not. The editor should not > easily produce invalid syntax. I disagree with that last statement. I=E2=80=99m not aware of any Emacs mo= de (or any other text editor for that matter) that prevents me from producing invalid syntax. A text editor preventing invalid syntax is actually not even desirable because the path from one syntactically valid state of the document to the next often leads through invalid states. If you really want to prevent temporarily invalid documents, the result is going to be some kind of GUI application, not a text editor. While that may be a valid solution for some people, it is certainly not the Emacs way of doing things. Titus > In any case it's very easy to rebind keys in a hook. If you write a > org.texi patch on how to get purist keybindings we can add it. > >> I am a BIG fan of the Org mode slogan "Your life in plain text." The >> power of plain text has been demonstrated over and over again. You can >> run text manipulating commands on it, you can process it with a large >> array of different programming languages. > > Nobody is disputing that. > >> An undo is a basic text editing feature that everyone should >> know. Reassigning non-standard behaviour to the return key is - in my >> opinion - against the ideology. > > I see that you use Gnus. Did you by any change use RET to open the > article? It's bound to gnus-summary-scroll-up. > > In Emacs25, or maybe even before, RET in at least lisp mode started to > indent automatically via electric-indent-mode. Are you against this? > > What I will agree on is that it would be better if Org used more > "standard" mechanism and e.g. cleverly hooked newline. However, Org > targets a number of versions of Emacs (ATM: 23-25), making this hard. > >>> The attached patch re-enables breaks in region four of >>> org-complex-heading-regexp, i.e. from the cookie up to tags. A quick >>> test suggests it works nicely. >>> >>> WDYT? >> >> Given enough time, I could come up with a situation where I would run a >> keyboard macro in which I would expect the return key to break the line, >> regardless of where I was on that line (in a tag or whatever). > > In that case there's C-o C-e or M-x newline... > >> I am a very minor player in this game, but I would really, _really_ like >> Org to remain as true to it's slogan as possible. > > I'm still don't see this point. There's Org, "the format", which should > ideally be easy to use in any editor (I wrote a basic syntax parser for > texworks). It's plaintext. Then there's org-mode, the principal editor > of Org. It supposed to be a nice environment for composing text. > > =E2=80=94Rasmus --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1 iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJVWTSmAAoJEK40WfPGE2id7ocIAIkOoo9WAPMq6SLyjsLJ9MBm mq7a57b70zb9xHGdiuzYnCWn93KK2FNWdUsMYXYhUqlYfVjzjDVzX462i2ksn9K4 ABbq5USlF/Zlp2CvvUmj3n+85xxQ+AFBxoam5IiEkgMHVBj3LGiJ1LLBOkOQuRdw VkV4nwEzT2dgm8bEB/7r49V2cR8MwWIog/qrioUQeID0bINRspHhYL7tkjLvfC88 SeewPy8+0Ht2JM/9jRdhySETbPQHYxnM0AqymTdBUOHqBKSJituWg6bWIcoD8zwW Cljl+qbB0XjUtuWmC+CV89w6JNg4r678Y7LKAik0b+3jb8mPSIrrVL4COo5kQr8= =bGj7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--