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Sun, 16 Jul 2023 12:23:59 -0600 References: <878rbib4su.fsf@gmail.com> <87v8emb2rx.fsf@lipklim.org> <87ilamf91l.fsf@tsdye.online> <87bkgdh9ud.fsf@localhost> <87edl9f4qq.fsf@tsdye.online> <87lefgi58c.fsf@localhost> User-agent: mu4e 1.6.10; emacs 27.1 From: "Thomas S. Dye" To: Ihor Radchenko Cc: "Thomas S. Dye" , Evgenii Klimov , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [TASK] Ensure built-in babel backend consistency (standard header support) and ad documentation to the manual (was: [Pre-PATCH v2] Add the capability to specify lexical scope in tangled files (was: Add new :lexical header argument)) Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2023 07:40:18 -1000 In-reply-to: <87lefgi58c.fsf@localhost> Message-ID: <87jzuz90lf.fsf@tsdye.online> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - box2035.bluehost.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - gnu.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - tsdye.online X-BWhitelist: no X-Source-IP: 50.113.33.148 X-Source-L: No X-Exim-ID: 1qL6PW-002BGA-Si X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-Source-Sender: cpe-50-113-33-148.hawaii.res.rr.com (poto-foou.tsdye.online) [50.113.33.148]:36140 X-Source-Auth: tsd@tsdye.online X-Email-Count: 3 X-Source-Cap: dHNkeWVvbmw7dHNkeWVvbmw7Ym94MjAzNS5ibHVlaG9zdC5jb20= X-Local-Domain: yes Received-SPF: pass client-ip=69.89.30.42; envelope-from=tsd@tsdye.online; helo=gproxy3-pub.mail.unifiedlayer.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FROM_SUSPICIOUS_NTLD=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_PDS_OTHER_BAD_TLD=0.01, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Queue-Id: EF52D4CE9C X-Migadu-Scanner: mx1.migadu.com X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 4.02 X-Spam-Score: 4.02 X-TUID: JPKNUM8kr/YW Ihor Radchenko writes: > "Thomas S. Dye" writes: > >> IIRC, there wasn't much discussion. The current situation >> doesn't seem ripe for documentation in the manual. >> >> Here are some potential hurdles: >> - there are likely too many built-in backends; >> ... >> One way forward might distinguish between babel backends for >> GNU >> software and babel backends for non-GNU software, with the >> former >> built in, guaranteed to be consistent to some standard (which >> needs to be formulated), and documented in the manual and the >> latter moved to contrib or a package archive, with >> documentation >> (if any) on Worg. > > We have recently reduced the number of built-in backends: > https://list.orgmode.org/orgmode/87bl9rq29m.fsf@gnu.org/ > Presumably, all that's left is useful is worth maintaining > upstream. > Yes, thanks for the link. I read this thread as a first step toward enlisting maintainers for built-in backends. This effort had some success--20 packages have a designated maintainer--but still leaves 23 packages for the Org mode programmers, which seems like a lot to me. >> - the built-in backends are a mixed bag--ob-lua seems >> half-finished to me, though I don't program in lua and >> struggled >> to set up the language to write the documentation stub on >> Worg; > > AFAIK, most people assume that built-in backends are stable. > If they are not, it is a bug anyway. Or we should declare that > we do not > maintain them. > I thought "declare that we do not maintain them" meant "move them to org-contrib". I'm not sure what you have in mind here. >> - nearly a dozen of the built-in babel backends lack >> documentation outside the source code (see >> https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/index.html#orgbc466c5); >> and > >> - language support is inconsistent (see >> https://orgmode.org/worg/org-contrib/babel/languages/lang-compat.html), >> which introduces complications for language agnostic literate >> programming. > > That's what we should work on. Wonderful! All the best, Tom -- Thomas S. Dye https://tsdye.online/tsdye