From: John Williams <john.williams@otago.ac.nz>
To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [ox, patch] Add #+SUBTITLE
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 10:23:17 +1300 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <87iodsu3p6.fsf@otago.ac.nz> (raw)
In-Reply-To: 87oanku5d0.fsf@wmi.amu.edu.pl
I, for one, find your ideas exciting, Marcin. If you're simply looking
for votes in order to start work on this: +1.
Thanks!
>>>>> Marcin Borkowski <mbork@wmi.amu.edu.pl> writes:
> On 2015-03-22, at 16:29, Rasmus <rasmus@gmx.us> wrote:
>> IMO it is. The only place where there's a "hack" is in ox-latex
>> and that's cause article is the default class. If you prefer, it
>> can just output to the \subtitle{·} by default and say it's
>> KOMA-script only. That seems harsh, though.
> Hi there,
> being like a Pavlov's dog trained to dribble on seeing the word
> LaTeX;-), let me add my 2 cents here.
> [TL;DR: imho, the right way to do LaTeX export is to prepare a
> dedicated package for Org-mode generated files (easy/medium),
> arrange for it to be included in all major TeX distros (easy) and
> simplify the LaTeX exporter to comply with it (easy). This could
> greatly enhance the quality of PDFs produced by Org-mode and make
> modifying their look easier on the Org side. I could do the LaTeX
> side of the work. Now the question is: does the community /want/
> it.]
> The (default) LaTeX markup sucks. (It’s not about
> Org-mode-produced LaTeX files, it’s about LaTeX itself.) And I'm
> telling that as a long-time TeX and LaTeX user and fan. I would
> strongly suggest not caring too much about “what does LaTeX
> support out-of-the-box” – in fact, it supports almost nothing
> without a heap of packages.
> What I really think Org-mode community should do is the following.
> We (if I may use that pronoun here) should prepare a dedicated Org
> LaTeX package, properly supporting all Org’s fancy stuff like
> tags, timestamps, todo keywords etc., and allowing for
> parametrizing their look-and-feel through a reasonable LaTeX
> interface. I think it should /not/ be a class, since then people
> would be free to use it with
> article/amsart/koma-script/memoir/whatever. This is not very
> difficult nor time-consuming, and in fact I might be tempted to do
> it (more on that below). This would require (simple) changes in
> the LaTeX exporter (generally, simplifying it); this I cannot do,
> since I don’t have the FSF papers signed (and I don’t want to sign
> them). OTOH, the package does not have this problem, since LaTeX
> licensing is much more sane than Emacs’; this package should be
> imho part of every TeX distro (which is important, and in fact
> easy to arrange), so that we could send an Org-generated LaTeX
> file to any TeX user.
> The biggest advantage would be the possibility of exporting
> e.g. TODO lists or agendas to LaTeX, and have them formatted as
> TODO lists and agendas and not as “articles”. Currently, LaTeX
> export is more or less limited to scientific articles (unless you
> want to tweak it /a lot/ so that it looks even remotely
> reasonable), where you don’t really care about layout and design,
> since they are going to be changed by the journal anyway.
> Just think about the possibilities. We could make a TODO list in
> Org, and send it (as a pdf file) for non-Org-users to print, and
> it could look like a TODO-list. (I guess there are still lots of
> people who depend on paper todo lists; I do, for sure, though I
> make them manually.) We could have an option (on Org side, which
> would translate to a LaTeX one) to have more Word-like layout.
> (You can say what you want about Word – my personal opinion is
> that it is unsuitable for documents larger/more complex than a
> piece of paper with an arrow showing the direction to the restroom
> – but sometimes, especially for short memos/notes, LaTeX’s
> extremely generic spacing can be annoying. Of course, you could
> just load the savetrees package – but let me make a short,
> informal and unscientific survey here: how many of you would find
> it useful, but never thought that something like that exists? If,
> OTOH, there would be such option for the LaTeX exporter, it would
> be right there, in Org-mode manual. In fact, since not everyone
> might follow this thread, let me start another one, with this very
> question in a minute;-).)
> The added benefit would be much cleaner structure of Org-generated
> LaTeX files. Currently, they have a huge preamble and a few
> hard-wired things.
> Summing up: as we know, there are many ways people use Org-mode,
> but the current PDF exporter (through LaTeX’s article class,
> heavily biased toward scientific material) is suboptimal for all
> but one of these ways.
> As I said, if there is some consensus on whether something like
> that is needed, I can start working on it. (In fact, it might be
> a fun side-project.) I would estimate that I’d need a week or two
> to come up with a proof-of-concept, sort-of-working thing, and
> something like two months with a first production version.
> (Though I don’t have time for a project like this now,
> realistically I could start in August.) (Let me thank here for
> Org-mode clocking feature – the above estimate is due to the fact
> that I did some work on coding a dedicated, quite complex LaTeX
> class for a journal, and I know that it has taken me about 32
> hours as of now. Assuming an average pace of 2-4 hours a week,
> and assuming about 16 hours for a first version of this one – it
> would be a much simpler project – gives 1-2 months or so. NB. Fun
> fact: the work on the class for the journal I’m talking about
> includes coding some Emacs Lisp to extract metadata from LaTeX
> (and aux) files and generate XML files for uploading pdfs to the
> journal site.)
> WDYT?
>> —Rasmus
> Best,
> -- Marcin Borkowski http://octd.wmi.amu.edu.pl/en/Marcin_Borkowski
> Faculty of Mathematics and Computer Science Adam Mickiewicz
> University
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2015-03-22 21:30 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 26+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2015-03-20 23:23 [ox, patch] Add #+SUBTITLE Rasmus
2015-03-21 2:26 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-03-21 2:32 ` Melanie Bacou
2015-03-22 14:02 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-22 15:29 ` Rasmus
2015-03-22 20:47 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-03-22 21:21 ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-22 21:23 ` John Williams [this message]
2015-03-22 22:43 ` Rasmus
2015-03-22 23:19 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-03-23 0:05 ` Rasmus
2015-03-23 8:32 ` Marcin Borkowski
2015-03-23 9:00 ` Sebastien Vauban
2015-03-24 9:05 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-24 9:37 ` Rasmus
2015-03-28 15:17 ` Nicolas Goaziou
2015-03-26 2:36 ` Melanie Bacou
2015-03-26 2:38 ` Melanie Bacou
2015-03-26 10:10 ` Rasmus
2015-03-22 14:34 ` Eric Abrahamsen
2015-03-22 15:32 ` Rasmus
2015-03-23 1:17 ` Eric Abrahamsen
2015-03-26 2:47 ` Melanie Bacou
2015-03-26 9:52 ` Rasmus
2015-03-26 10:42 ` Rasmus
2015-03-28 8:26 ` Melanie Bacou
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