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[2001:44b8:31f2:bb00:ae68:ae3c:97fa:f661]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id o124sm4247837pfb.177.2021.12.03.15.59.26 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 03 Dec 2021 15:59:27 -0800 (PST) References: <4897bc60-b74f-ccfd-e13e-9b89a1194fdf@mailbox.org> <87fsrbp673.fsf@gmail.com> <1ef0e093-c165-2a5f-954d-6a33b64c8ee9@mailbox.org> <87r1avgnpi.fsf@localhost> User-agent: mu4e 1.7.5; emacs 28.0.60 From: Tim Cross To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Org-syntax: Intra-word markup Date: Sat, 04 Dec 2021 10:51:47 +1100 In-reply-to: Message-ID: <87ilw5grz7.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-Host-Lookup-Failed: Reverse DNS lookup failed for 2607:f8b0:4864:20::42d (failed) Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::42d; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-x42d.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -12 X-Spam_score: -1.3 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.3 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, PDS_HP_HELO_NORDNS=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RDNS_NONE=0.793, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=no autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1638576030; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=QwN6iTe6mw8S5+4Bxe6N8nkGoz0GjhXGDQ40Ty4jJ2Q=; b=uZ+526NhLBRY66is3eIdS8Cemkgs67ddX+ZfSnjnjt7aVo7D0i41iApmStPp40IEcgTrEx 6RynI/Fij21spGy5BVI0DxF1e0Ysjl+dCGl6WNlBlamlKD4tmqnOuaezgnx3qptzY2hPKr vQe4y8BlojP44hM9459FW4s0pW+MzkrTY/VSLUuZeCgi5zC8vq6nhLTmgwiqWfkpHozMC0 n+ZCOCeNibQy0uwzTJGm+ZhgtHdBmBIysmtrxV81GBbN6GSdhwq4qJiZTiFhrkXTB7BJ8m L8epUW028xrpP1jJs7yBEPOAP+e67+izKyzlav3KS6I8dm9hkb0Gh3daCzOiHA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1638576030; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=LvclB3VQBcgfePKDOZ74XMq7gHKnEMxzyRe7kzr1F/7hTXJeJuNgueJSnuZu09EpCslbTV Y2ZaR+ncuSYYorWFSi16ivjsTAVvgj759LyDqb/MVmGvjUVug3feEgOZQoPMXJV5tPEGDd 9nLWJrEfMPMkD8ovKSS1J8pPkNkd0/0KN8BBFAvhYZJeA+kUEaECAtLCKe+wg9i05a8qo4 BwwwcXYnYGAwf7GqeHZjv7GekP/AUby2FiF9fBvMSP5khA8oTXbsuPbkvIF9pdzwRXr8Bq Oz4iTcOw9gux4bb13jUEoJacwB2tldIlk7HfEfIceKb2vXnf7HwAYtPFtpYVUg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=nYIzjq8v; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.13 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=nYIzjq8v; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 86A6E298AE X-Spam-Score: -4.13 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 2b5c16huQ4iE Tom Gillespie writes: > I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but the edge cases for > the current markup syntax are already hard enough to > implement correctly, to the point where different parts of > Org mode are inconsistent. Intra-word markup isn't viable > because there simply isn't any sane way to parse something > like *hello world*/hrm/oh no*. The other issue is that this will > degrade parsing performance because almost every > character could precede the start of a markup section. > > I recommend anyone suggesting solutions try to implement > something that can parse the markup unambiguously with > lots of nasty test cases. You will likely find that it is impossible > to consistently tokenize markup, and that you have to hand > write a whole bunch of heuristics, making Org syntax even > harder to implement correctly. > > Any solution that suggests extending how =/*~+_ can be > used gets a hard no from me. I could see teaching other > exporters how to interpret \emph{hello}world, but trying for > to have any sane behavior for something like > why *hello*world oh no a wild askterisk* > is not worth it. > +infinity! Please, please can we stop trying to satisfy every edge case or extend the markup to satisfy every possible scenario. Org's big strength is in its simplicity. This comes at a price - limitations in what can be done. If those limitations are unacceptable, then use a richer markup format like Latex, XML, HTML etc. The point about back end exporter support is very relevant. The 'richer' the markup, the harder it is to get a consistent mapping for back end exporters. things quickly become more complex and difficult to maintain. In 18 years, I've seen requests for inner word markup less than 4 times. this is not a feature we should even be considering adding to the markup syntax. Org provides a light weight markup, not a fully flexible rich markup designed to meet any need. It makes the easy stuff simple.