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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1639217033; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=nGxzI/gCygkprxEn+GGK7/P5iVb726R7p0qxLZbg+tk=; b=IQqTnvchyU00GcrZL1rysqrx9z6oIXa/ivSpWlDqEnoxD7DlrE7tG97XpS7NykgFWDX1n7 CSePb1qn0w4ZXzHVMBlfV7k+O5mpHR/kD2nTL45Gm6FUqmXt/lbOhLRRCn3cutfUNGrpOC KHYiW5COzDXou/sZsTUOC9uZETKXmsvmo46Qs56pCRw+spua+utje7IPOG+3a2miI+dT9L 9VePjqsY/3bbsK+x39x2SGEou5xL8PDU6LAtwfkkhCf+96F4/cyixZhklQoLrVXxFhG83Q T0M+sL3rRa5Q8Qc9i6muodPYsKKwL2uFB0HxV8mTObai95MeVEPiy/jdBy8rgQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1639217033; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=qWF64QlRE3JLjCNwNjC0pWZX+HiJdPazHEau+1+BXP191o1DalrlNhutq+74vI9H+D2KGf m7SbrBPY9v4QMcnmXmzFhxFGQfb8vZnF4mqVs8NoSr2guyFjB8zqMBA0ACD/SiJvUc0b1A gCzert4JmdUaXWdtkWhzP5MFxmR9oiJlpqHxnJ9teZx9wSuKORpSc9GKWvHRksMl0uzOwp 3pTnoiL3kWOgtQWf5vYUGRyRYY4bNtnIJCOarydDUJ+8aIsGKAdFytTBSJ8IE2gpKCzi9Z 0GQ1Q70xtGenQDxGIr0iV8q+wzqYkd9vczNUSwcMgU6Nk2Qk1KZqnk5wkxfN8g== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=abaTldck; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.66 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=abaTldck; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 15BBE11840 X-Spam-Score: -3.66 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: ssDZYI/K1A1h Tim Cross writes: > ... while I totally agree we should work > very hard not to break compatibility or adversely affect other projects > which are built on top of org mode, like org-roam, we also don't want to > find ourselves in a position where we cannot improve/enhance org mode > because of the impact it has on other projects. Well. We have no direct control on the other projects. However, not doing anything about the fact that other project keep appearing is nothing but a call for more compatibility issues. If we do not clearly specify relatively stable syntax or API, the other projects will inevitably use internal implementation details and could be broken more easily. For example, my recent patch to org-element broke org-roam because org-roam relied on some undocumented behaviour of org-element-at-point. > Having thought about this whole thread and other recent posts, I still > feel any concern or reference to third party libraries etc is misguided > or at the least, irrelevant. Most of the suggestions are fine and would > be beneficial to org mode (such as clearly defined, consistent and > documented syntax). The fact 3rd party libraries would also benefit from > this is a bonus, but largely irrelevant. You read "Org mode third-party integration" as benefit for third-party libraries. I read it as benefit for Org from third-party libraries (as opposed to no benefit and potential complains from third-party library users). > I think a far more likely scenario is that we will see some/many of the > ideas found in org-mode adapted and implemented in other editors, but > without concern for compatibility. This has little to do with Emacs > org-mode's documentation or org-modes specification, but rather is about > how the ideas which are encapsulated in org-mode can be implemented in > other systems and within the limitations of those systems. I'm actually > surprised there hasn't been more org-mode clones already, but that could > be a reflection of the amount of work it would take to create something > which wasn't just another markdown module that renders a reasonable > HTML/PDF version of it's contents. . There are some "clones" like smos. However, org-mode is nothing but a compilation of existing ideas. There are many other (mostly proprietary) tools implementing parts of org's functionality: roam research, notion, evernote, wunderlist, zettelkasten (app), hypothes.is, ipython, Mathematica, taskwarrior, remember the milk, Doug Engelbart=E2=80= =99s ideas, etc. Even the damned Microsoft Word has built-in outliner (don't ask how I know). Best, Ihor