From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Richard Lawrence Subject: Re: Org citations, CSL and citeproc-el Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2018 08:52:15 -0800 Message-ID: <87fu7k45a8.fsf@aquinas.i-did-not-set--mail-host-address--so-tickle-me> References: <87wp0wuyyv.fsf@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:46355) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eXVEQ-0006zt-Cx for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 11:52:35 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eXVEM-0007aG-Gh for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 11:52:34 -0500 Received: from mail-pf0-x231.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400e:c00::231]:37306) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1eXVEM-0007ZD-8v for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 11:52:30 -0500 Received: by mail-pf0-x231.google.com with SMTP id n6so2398381pfa.4 for ; Fri, 05 Jan 2018 08:52:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from aquinas (c-67-169-117-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net. [67.169.117.151]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id n22sm11557894pgc.76.2018.01.05.08.52.26 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-CHACHA20-POLY1305 bits=256/256); Fri, 05 Jan 2018 08:52:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87wp0wuyyv.fsf@gmail.com> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" To: Simonyi =?utf-8?Q?Andr=C3=A1s?= , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Dear Simonyi, =20 Simonyi Andr=C3=A1s writes: > a few days ago I've released the first public version of=20 > citeproc-el (https://github.com/andras-simonyi/citeproc-el), a=20 > CSL 1.01 citation processor library for Emacs. =20 Wow! I don't know if you are aware, but we had discussed the=20 possibility of building something like this on the list a few=20 years back. At the time it seemed like a lot more work than=20 anyone was willing to do, and so the effort stalled. Thanks so=20 much for working on this -- it looks like you've done a ton of=20 work! > The resulting link syntax is rather cumbersome so I'd like to=20 > ask your opinion about introducing an alternative org-mode=20 > citation syntax that handles all of these elements. One option=20 > would be to use something very similar to pandoc's citation=20 > syntax (which I tried to follow as much as possible in the cite=20 > link descriptions of citeproc-orgref).=20 We had a (very) long discussion about implementing a new citation=20 syntax for Org in the spring of 2015. Most of it took place in=20 February and March; see: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-02/threads.html https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-03/threads.html=20 And here is how I summarized the state of that discussion in June: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-orgmode/2015-06/msg00426.html The upshot was that we came to agreement on quite a few points=20 about what citation syntax should look like, and those points have=20 been implemented in Org syntax in the wip-cite branch of the Org=20 repo. (This branch is now long out of date and at the very least=20 in need of a rebase onto current master, I suspect.) It would be=20 really great to get things moving again. Using your code to=20 provide citation processing during Org export for the syntax=20 that's already been implemented would be the place to start. There are other aspects of the syntax we agreed on that are not=20 implemented yet; as I recall, the idea was to get a minimal=20 agreeable subset working, and then add to it based on real-world=20 experience and feedback. =20 > A more general question I'd like to raise how (or whether) you=20 > see citeproc-el's (and CSL's) potential place in the org-mode=20 > ecosystem. There are a lot of directions which the further=20 > development could take (BibLaTeX support, citeproc-YAML=20 > bibliographies, CSL editing and CSL extensions etc.) and I'd be=20 > grateful to receive your input on which ones I should focus on.=20 Here's my two cents on this. From what I recall about the=20 discussion (it's hard to believe it's already been almost three=20 years...), I would focus on two things: 1) BibLaTeX support. Most Org users who want citation support=20 want it primarily for LaTeX export, and BibLaTeX provides a good=20 model of what we should try to achieve in Org citation support. 2) org-bibtex support. Org-bibtex is a library that represents=20 citation data via Org's property syntax. Some people use this and=20 it would be great to have it integrated with the new citation=20 syntax and export. That would provide an end-to-end citation=20 solution that is completely native to Org and Emacs.=20 Again, thanks for jump-starting this effort! I look forward to=20 contributing to it this spring. --=20 Best, Richard