From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Rasmus Subject: Re: [POLL] Should Org tempo be enabled by default? (expand templates thru e.g. " References: <87lgd671k7.fsf@bzg.fr> <87o9i2p9qq.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:43553) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fCstf-0007DC-AT for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 16:26:12 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fCsta-0001r9-CB for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 16:26:11 -0400 Received: from [195.159.176.226] (port=47286 helo=blaine.gmane.org) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.0:RSA_AES_128_CBC_SHA1:16) (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1fCsta-0001pT-54 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 16:26:06 -0400 Received: from list by blaine.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.84_2) (envelope-from ) id 1fCsrQ-00048e-47 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2018 22:23:52 +0200 List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Hi, Nicolas Goaziou writes: > We introduced a new expansion mechanism, recently bound to `C-c C-,'. > This mechanism is more in line with usual Org functions: it operates on > regions like, say, `org-insert-drawer'. It is an obvious default > expansion mechanism. > > If the big menu, we could however improve it with an "expert" UI, like > we already do for export and tags. Aside: At the moment key combinations are generated on the go (unless someone it was changed), so a full "expert-mode a la the export dispatcher" would likely not work. Of course, org-mks could be made nicer, as is obvious when compared to the export dispatcher. > Now, some users are used to " switch to that expansion mechanism. Fair enough. I first suggested to > use Yasnippets, which is powerful enough and easy to use. Some users > still didn't want to use that. Well. I suggested Tempo, but, admittedly, > out of the box, it is not really usable. Then Rasmus wrote Org Tempo. > > Even though Org Tempo is probably useful for a part of users, it is yet > another occurrence of NIH in Org mode. Instead of using already > available, and fitting, libraries for a task, we implement one. FWIW, I strongly disagree that Yasnippet is a suitable replacement. IMO it’s not at all intuitive. Why is using tempo NIH? > Also, it will probably prevent the default expansion mechanism to > receive feedback, and therefore, improvements (even though it is better > for basic uses) because users will not even notice the new mechanism if > the old one works out of the box. > IMO, Org Tempo should live outside of Org core, like many other > Org-related libraries. I disagree. > Some die-hard " had to install an external library. So asking for a "(require > 'org-tempo)" was an acceptable compromise, until your disagreement. FWIW, I am indifferent to whether org-tempo is loaded by default or not as long as it’s included by default and documented in the manual. Rasmus -- May contains speling mistake