From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id 0D4nM3Bj12FScAEAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 22:47:28 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id cH7MK3Bj12FOeAAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 22:47:28 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6A132355A9 for ; Thu, 6 Jan 2022 22:47:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:52232 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n5abX-0003vW-Fi for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 16:47:27 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:45570) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n5aat-0003uc-AK for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 16:46:47 -0500 Received: from mout.gmx.net ([212.227.15.19]:49261) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1n5aar-00082u-Ku for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 16:46:47 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1641505589; bh=fJROhmIX3JvhJSiuSI6R5v09IKrIqptl8HPxnCydBWc=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:From:To:Cc:Subject:References:Date:In-Reply-To; b=Fx4/Xyx0b56QS+jbIXrYsrZVfreDBj/2TRFhUQJMCYpm4Hx4V9GPsMCf2yooPzJRR 2CVJqI6afeeJ611qcrGLOGS6B6QqOGAmeh1mRFH9v8LYBcs6STEL9hBOtRTE8JmYsd ngJoeBpXlOSMG0+SQV9Xj6XLbbszjBNY2wldfnpM= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from X260 ([185.107.13.4]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.184]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MkYc0-1mfr4t2j0A-00lzR7; Thu, 06 Jan 2022 22:46:29 +0100 From: Rasmus To: mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr Subject: Re: oc-biblatex and biblatex substyles References: <87mtlourwg.fsf@gmx.us> <8735n0ss2i.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87k0fc4jxu.fsf@gmx.us> Date: Thu, 06 Jan 2022 22:46:28 +0100 In-Reply-To: <87k0fc4jxu.fsf@gmx.us> (rasmus@gmx.us's message of "Thu, 06 Jan 2022 22:45:49 +0100") Message-ID: <87fsq04jwr.fsf@gmx.us> User-Agent: Emacs Gnus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:KqngKKldaqx409N1achEoNsSc8zhD39cPzwkPMaCJvv+Asd9Ojb gKBW64VJbd46Akk6ybj7HUZmHQ3vk41dguLGbSQ+xvS00+2o0iy4ceLopAZtVRAy/YhtTGO 6gSDGYDCaFhTqPHUZ4KgJu5D2Aok0YMrZUnl+vto0iSaCX+x1dsiaWWiV6CV1jNwxpbG9Rl /+dMhi1jWsvHDlfenQHZQ== X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:WLcBfYkghlA=:yA7PP9LjYjCm/gN43pPeeN Qxy7tPgEtXntwl2oDgbs41atj3elrQ25zoaJfQdNILZIP7uq1ieRFhdie92iGMzSSZUmkWemT KuzfQ0bZ6kaWugyt2u2cISrLUllT7ttUye+/miMBzytYEXIyHizcNtWQdhrWsOiiQZVglKIfu 6ESXl7/3z+Kyih2RmWmlWfP1kV20RkezK9poEc4ShJvGHZDDgiio2gSxJK+jXCsqQbOOlPSMi mIbuBa5OcH7RRcjpr7LMzbhY2y2y/nTJfIsz6mMmjImWu2LS91EcACfDb5I+KKWnMiG8el63k XyCtYY2v97JFqgBPPpCWj8JrLVWuzxFrxkf2FaOotNSPKqwUSgSo3L29ce1DQnSRQ0O4wWQ9o FinpGjq/QoSWT+VVL+Cr3xo9opTkbHWW/WJy8e1EchqbbJl0kgJVUOVPlkBB+/s+a3oL/0qJC llke2xtpH6iv3jIqwXZRQ3kl3vZrFp0jxI+My0o83DOs/f8/Vg/60F/TJ0hK2cbo2HS23VgND yjArw0wf0//wBrgE7OTcqNMEDXqzKd8A6YRUDkfMhPKvdveLgmCZ+rusQJ8GeOXH63Iesg6SZ ImlIvrGRLhe+cTgx5azefn47sFcILOzy3Nb2xOL2lq2A8VnMTBnY7yIChDrPY4XrN+rLTr+Zf tEe86a7hhRjpi5mYTg0BUeOhWpoPAhm22MdFYL714zggAeub+a9/iTrko7NtAmR/1NGUpAwXd 2BhcvAz1Hd/iVa7bGa85dljAYQH08nr7g6LLWtrDdVKwsMyoHr8CQVs8fTkQc16BwpxV82+Mr p6Bs5xiuMmYjZTMM4U3igwRTPVnSS629f5WILZ5dW2pPnWYdDHtROzwhGbUe+Fd4+cCIQ8L09 DocS8qXCfih5ej2lERZ4ZI+ot74xHzuiKO8YkWQjDse8yUYcWmz1bVb/KbVsoLaKAMUABPdtd 1psF9sRd9DiPaOns3THQOpBEBkP1rK+MYc0/Te0Cr+Qh5eFT3dlhaRCNRp1kEPe47hps9fV8G ozIqPcFqEH6nUamKCBb/iHuwqfapkUUrOmFRf9VlTTTb7XyvB3v+5lKGuDQ4b/Tb5vKINJ47v fv6zLEdsZlPPdA= Received-SPF: pass client-ip=212.227.15.19; envelope-from=rasmus@gmx.us; helo=mout.gmx.net X-Spam_score_int: -25 X-Spam_score: -2.6 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.6 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1641505648; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=iFoDBNeLXLP9bm5jeicFx7Y3RqlSK7lo/+QJsED5zV0=; b=mkd97ijeFC9lCmByc2FE2nmRg/msFfLiRwZ7JvGk22iVwej06C4RUP438bzgr7enCsQuaz 9XX03R1XTJIDcmDQh7TGCYUFUDBXjFWgBCiF4gzrffng+VhuSyH+AF8WuwoOmPTNug1cSw 5qK3FbA2sc+xjxiN/xx63x7hSfLANq2wtbFBi/t46q1oFx+RicHS3jDDtpTSBaKnZ1G0M9 GoAa+FixMJnj7gdizZ2K9Q6UAsjQQwl2m75lmrmftWMex3x/9tgrzZafIkQY9MsFTsukAi e+/awfkD4rJZSAywgKqwOWJ9vkONv5J78YJY7pNrcDFlN68GLN/Z/qTvD/dQqQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1641505648; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=pGFPM1WGuYZFdY1diByUg3Wjq9SWambrpkmh6SXeyD6oyiczK5M5fDSoWRK10eJFLfHHOJ Hjny93E2FWsd+LDQxZUz6GR8EzAfvNQsc9GABpVhRJx7naLok4qN2REaCKTpaGBkYyYANQ oCwcibS5OaMeuX3EfCGDDSiHy3l5orj+p//w+Pp8EZuEbAdFe+aoiqzot1hLxSyLlyL9j2 MYd9DGZZyPhOA+IAO6bEBvHzHSKItDilzphiTWGqEAWN+KGSBuwUz1ZfiY5raKixyolQlY Gt7GkWfIzdiADUcBNjfuTLA9Acbao+dZxoa+KG95o4+P+GjAw3rQb8wCJqu/Vw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmx.net header.s=badeba3b8450 header.b="Fx4/Xyx0"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmx.us (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: 2.71 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=fail ("headers rsa verify failed") header.d=gmx.net header.s=badeba3b8450 header.b="Fx4/Xyx0"; dmarc=fail reason="SPF not aligned (relaxed)" header.from=gmx.us (policy=none); spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 6A132355A9 X-Spam-Score: 2.71 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: H/tGW3zt914l Ah, now I sent two emails. I thought the first one got lost. Sorry for the noise. Rasmus Rasmus writes: > Hi there, > > Sorry for the slow reply. > > Nicolas Goaziou writes: > >> Hello, >> >> Rasmus writes: >> >>> I wonder if oc-biblatex should support loading biblatex-derived librari= es, >>> e.g. biblatex-chicago? >>> >>> There=E2=80=99s a quite a few of these libraries: >>> >>> $ tlmgr search --global "biblatex-" | wc -l >>> 66 >>> >>> (This is somewhat overestimating the true number of =E2=80=9Cbiblatex-*= =E2=80=9D >>> packages). >>> >>> These libraries are typically nie because they are (i) easier to config= ure >>> than biblatex for a specific style and (ii) actually support some >>> \usepackage keywords that can=E2=80=99t be used by biblatex (e.g. ibidt= racker for >>> biblatex-chicago). >>> >>> Thus, it might be able to at least support >>> >>> #+cite_export: biblatex-$SUBSTYLE >>> >>> E.g. #+cite_export: biblatex-chicago. But oc-biblatex would likely also >>> have to be able to pickup biblatex-* packages in >>> org-latex-(default-)packages-alist... >>> >>> So maybe it=E2=80=99s a can of worms? >> >> I don't know enough about BibLaTeX to answer that question. What does it >> entail to "support loading biblatex-derived libraries" in practical >> terms? I assume \usepackage{biblatex-chicago} instead of >> \usepackage{biblatex}, with a different set of options and commands, >> too. > > For the most part it should be drop in replacements. I don=E2=80=99t thi= nk any > user commands are *removed* from a derived style. But options to the > package could be added an user commands could be added. > >> It may be possible to define a new variable, e.g., >> =E2=80=98org-cite-biblatex-package=E2=80=98, defaulting to ("bilatex" . = nil). It would >> contain entries like (SUBSTYLE . OPTIONS) and would be used to build the >> proper \usepackage invocation. > > Maybe that is the best way to go about. Then at least we could support > the main styles out there. I guess Chicago covers most of the social > sciences? I guess the humanities use APA? I don=E2=80=99t know how diff= erent > biblatex-apa is though. > > There are also obscure styles. E.g. a student once used biblatex-aer > which is a derived style of biblatex-chicago that makes it look like a > famous journal. > > >> I also plan to allow custom commands in "oc-biblatex.el", so it could >> also handle commands introduced by the substyles. >> >> How we would select substyle from the document is not clear, tho. > > If we want to support arbitrary styles somewhat I guess something like > #+cite_export: biblatex-$SUBSTYLE would be ok. But it would not > necessarily be full support. > >> Another possibility it to write, e.g., "oc-biblatex-chicago.el" and >> define a new =E2=80=98biblatex-chicago=E2=80=99 export processor, re-usi= ng most >> functions from "oc-biblatex.el". It would probably only be necessary to >> re-define =E2=80=98org-cite-biblatex-export-citation=E2=80=99 and >> =E2=80=98org-cite-biblatex-prepare-preamble=E2=80=99. > > I guess you (and Tom) is right that it would be better to make a derived = style. > > Tom, did you already make a derived style? From the later emails it > sounded like it, but I don=E2=80=99t see oc-biblatex-chicago.el in the ma= in repo. > > Otherwise, I can have try to have a go at it over the coming weeks. > > Kind regards and terribly sorry again for missing the follow ups earlier, > Rasmus --=20 What will be next?