From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id GMeLOmhWTmPIXgAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2022 09:31:53 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id WHB1OmhWTmPwbwEAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2022 09:31:52 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A775F296 for ; Tue, 18 Oct 2022 09:31:52 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:59092 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1okh4n-000630-G4 for larch@yhetil.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2022 03:31:49 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:37910) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1okgw0-000603-7I for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Tue, 18 Oct 2022 03:22:44 -0400 Received: from fencepost.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::e]:42970) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1okgvx-0000WA-Ud; Tue, 18 Oct 2022 03:22:41 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gnu.org; s=fencepost-gnu-org; h=MIME-Version:Date:References:In-Reply-To:Subject:To: From; bh=eX0CnEgCNmqZ77mDBUta24U87PmwiXJok2bR/X8vkPw=; b=D4pFBozd3q9KTrVcu/r4 IPH5Xh8IIKpWv4A9frOopmjFGAGnMTYViTCNYXWYgNfVOchrBJHPXVhyA4mCAlB9uAro1vWbUVBYS br4LsVW5s/kN4WNqjSU2toJIjnLCXOYp+R9a5LHFeguEZCnbxOSyBAYLJ8yHWEIiUteoWFMrZq6Uq 1Bw7d7P4Mb71k4PYvvlv1N3WHs/oikfD3PmXKhBIiBwqxG933E7qAYxXjG5hcfcrPi9sckIdeQUaI 1FEcqGd/RjR6GVUEH4g9VzKW/tjOTrw8K+Nt5lcsZvLGup5KW5lwhJ7mFpYcasvOH074FimI1fn7S fMDE6Toxg5hIyg==; Received: from 186.48.140.77.rev.sfr.net ([77.140.48.186]:35322 helo=hal) by fencepost.gnu.org with esmtpsa (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1okgvw-0000a2-NI; Tue, 18 Oct 2022 03:22:40 -0400 Received: by hal (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 0E33C1E0408; Tue, 18 Oct 2022 09:22:38 +0200 (CEST) From: Bastien To: Timothy Cc: Karl Voit , Karl Voit , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: Org-mode syntax as a tool-independent MIME type In-Reply-To: <87y1tdvppg.fsf@tec.tecosaur.net> (Timothy's message of "Tue, 18 Oct 2022 09:55:20 +0800") Organization: GNU References: <871rjhha8t.fsf@gmail.com> <5f5325db.1c69fb81.53d7d.5b93@mx.google.com> <87pn70ai0t.fsf@gnu.org> <87y2log45r.fsf@gmail.com> <87sgbgg9r0.fsf@gmail.com> <2022-10-17T22-36-38@devnull.Karl-Voit.at> <87y1tdvppg.fsf@tec.tecosaur.net> Date: Tue, 18 Oct 2022 09:22:38 +0200 Message-ID: <87fsfl7g01.fsf@bzg.fr> User-Agent: Gnus/5.13 (Gnus v5.13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1666078312; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=eX0CnEgCNmqZ77mDBUta24U87PmwiXJok2bR/X8vkPw=; b=QvSB+/2fCwBpxrDRAjeFvdDNBTcZEyGOB25q9zWZSsPM8UZWtZ4IBzW5vs8czd4uzJj41O NMPxLb6tSXKCtWpxf9rAadIyGQ/GZD4PrZ4ieWGZAwY3XQuql0mpBiKeRs9J3TMrd81UEd uOybtRyXecuVsagP7PU1uruHtsNJrilYrVQqSQSGy06w/DiH2HXtoJhZfkJXPVszezIdqv yPTSYkSxN5Je6nch+lQoAG3t6Es08U+ZuGxf6fLG2TUTsiddCgbiSolr4EccKj41udbRJa 66XHeJSqvDBEnQl92CYKFpMC6qNZ96neRcjzHF0ai5/MDYv4dtzfxHWVhE+dCg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1666078312; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=KM22+FtrL9ORAOXevEdAiZpxBEITDVBLJkJPNNtha/yqj5H527CrDwu8UJ/Ccx6eG3pzSt +OcwtpW6bZKBzxZWZteI4EQGDH1rIn1Il+Wly7/3wlUG/MiKDy22u0J82Yvzv/IPT6O6yr o9GiNpOKlH4UWbt71i45AvDLbZrPFcod23EPAtLeSaDKPPpMPf/YWMKk8tw61jU00UPp4z fI+aFUAbr0DjkqMQUdzPUuzduF1H3ppjfUcUOgXbBRug865qSscDRtgV5GjxehKa9A1dwF QAO9Fwaq3JJpf+T8aGOnJgejQztLbVpVvPVarhulcSSNlx+WtngPr1Obdt+0Mg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=D4pFBozd; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.12 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gnu.org header.s=fencepost-gnu-org header.b=D4pFBozd; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gnu.org; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 4A775F296 X-Spam-Score: -5.12 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: qGsAd3YcSOYW Hi Karl and Timothy, thank you Karl for reviving this important topic. I think our collective priority should be to work on https://orgmode.org/worg/dev/org-synxtax.html so that it reflects the current Org syntax. Hopefully we can do this before Org 9.6. As discussed with TEC, we can factor out suggestions from this document so that it is not a mix of facts and hypotheses. Then we can work on suggestions for evolutions of the current Org-mode syntax chunk by chunk, as a long-term goal for stabilizing changes for Org 10 (2023 ?) What occurred to me while rereading this thread is that definining a syntax for a IETF RFC on an Org mimetype probably needs to be done not just by this Emacs Org-mode community, but by bringing together other "consumers" of .org files, from ecosystems outside of Emacs. Such a collective work could lead to define what subset of the Org syntax is useful as the corner-stone for .org files everywhere - which is what you rightfully brought up with "Orgdown". If successful, such a process could end up in defining the minimal and official "Org syntax" while allowing implementations (like the one for Emacs org-mode) to supercharge this syntax if deemed useful. Perhaps TEC is right and we will end up having the minimal syntax being the one we currently use for Org-mode: we'll see. But we need volunteers: one to work on worg/dev/org-synxtax.org (I'm assuming TEC can lead the work here) and one to set up a discussion with people implementing Org in various places (you ?). I suggest to take this sequentially and not tackle the second work before we're done with the first one. 2 cts, -- Bastien