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From: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@posteo.net>
To: Daryl Manning <daryl@wakatara.com>
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda
Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2023 19:07:09 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <87fscajo2q.fsf@localhost> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAL9aZktA2OK1uSn3xHax_SLqD-3K1Y9DUGq9Qt+z84aod=pZfg@mail.gmail.com>

Daryl Manning <daryl@wakatara.com> writes:

> I'd just be excited to have us run through the basic use cases and then see
> some more "tricky" ones. I imagine there are things we'd just have to
> say... too tricky for (eg. flight takes off in one TZ and range allows it
> to land in timezone... stuff like that might be tricky.).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-5wpm-gesOY gives various examples.
To summarize:

1. Time (YYYY-MM-DD HH:MM) not continuous and may change arbitrarily at
   certain times a year or in future or in the past:
   - DST transitions are not stable and change from year to year
     according to strange rules that may involve Julian dates or
     counting weekdays
   - DST transition rules may change over time
   - The new year day itself is not necessarily fixed (England
   - Julian/Gregorian transitions happened at different times in
     different countries

2. There might be arbitrary time gaps due to time transition, including
   time overlaps with the same time of the day happening multiple time a
   day:
   - One hour back during DST transition (northern and southern
     hemispheres do the transitions in opposite directions)
   - Multiple days skipped (Samoa skips a whole day during DST
     transition)
   - Great Britain used 2 hours DST offset during WWII
   - Julian/Gregorian calendar transitions in the past

3. We cannot assume that the same geographical area has fixed time zone
   even at given point of time:
   - Palestinian/Israeli people follow different time zones in the
     contested territories

4. Great Britain had new year on March 25 until 16th century
   (March 24, 1000 -> (+1 day) March 25, 1001)

5. Leap seconds! 23:59:59 -> 23:59:60 -> 00:00:00, according to
   astronomical Earth observations

> So, is the TS syntax you've described accepted and canonical now with
> org-mode?

We are still discussing it.

-- 
Ihor Radchenko // yantar92,
Org mode contributor,
Learn more about Org mode at <https://orgmode.org/>.
Support Org development at <https://liberapay.com/org-mode>,
or support my work at <https://liberapay.com/yantar92>


  reply	other threads:[~2023-01-16 19:07 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 330+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-01-13  8:56 [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Daryl Manning
2023-01-13 12:51 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-14  6:27   ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-14 12:46     ` Jean Louis
2023-01-14 11:18   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 11:26     ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-14 11:42       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-15  5:11         ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-15 13:41           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-16 16:43             ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-16 18:37               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-17 17:40                 ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-18  9:59                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-18 16:25                     ` Jean Louis
2023-01-18 16:24                   ` [SOLUTION] " Jean Louis
2023-01-20 10:57         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-20 11:29           ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-20 11:36             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-20 15:10               ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-20 11:39             ` Fraga, Eric
2023-01-20 11:48               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-21 12:55                 ` Jean Louis
2023-01-21 13:41                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-21  9:21               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-21 10:14                 ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-22 11:49                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-20 22:51             ` Tim Cross
2023-01-14 13:03     ` Tim Cross
2023-01-14 13:22       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-15 19:10         ` Jean Louis
2023-01-16 11:21           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-16 11:30             ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-16 11:39               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-16 15:43                 ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-16 19:07                   ` Ihor Radchenko [this message]
2023-01-16 19:22                     ` Robert Horn
2023-01-16 19:41                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-16 20:47                         ` Robert Horn
2023-01-16 21:02                           ` Tom Gillespie
2023-01-16 21:48                             ` Robert Horn
2023-01-17  8:53                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-17  3:55                           ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-17  8:22                             ` Tim Cross
2023-01-17  9:15                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-17  9:45                                 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-18  9:15                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-18 11:43                                     ` Tim Cross
2023-01-18 12:02                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-18 21:16                                         ` Tim Cross
2023-01-19  5:29                                           ` Jean Louis
2023-01-19  6:25                                             ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-19 14:17                                               ` Jean Louis
2023-01-19 15:55                                                 ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-21 13:10                                                   ` Jean Louis
2023-01-21 16:23                                                     ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-21 13:50                                                   ` Jean Louis
2023-01-21 14:31                                                     ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-21 16:55                                                     ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-19  7:23                                             ` Tim Cross
2023-01-19 14:32                                               ` Jean Louis
2023-01-19 20:09                                                 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-19 23:02                                                   ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-19 23:51                                                     ` Tim Cross
2023-01-20  0:24                                                       ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-20  3:46                                                         ` Tim Cross
2023-01-20  6:14                                                           ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-27  6:06                                                             ` Sterling Hooten
2023-01-27  6:09                                                               ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-27  9:54                                                               ` Jean Louis
2023-01-27 21:04                                                                 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-29  4:09                                                                   ` Jean Louis
2023-01-29  6:21                                                                     ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-29  6:46                                                                       ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-29 14:10                                                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-30 19:37                                                                       ` Jean Louis
2023-01-31  0:53                                                                         ` Thomas S. Dye
     [not found]                                                                         ` <0597910b-9b01-3c0c-5d06-da171e0de4cd@gmx.at>
2023-01-31  6:08                                                                           ` Jean Louis
2023-01-29  6:31                                                                     ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-30 20:36                                                                       ` Jean Louis
2023-01-30 20:38                                                                       ` Jean Louis
2023-01-29 20:26                                                                     ` Tim Cross
2023-01-30 20:55                                                                       ` Jean Louis
2023-01-30 21:54                                                                         ` Tim Cross
2023-01-31  7:04                                                                           ` Jean Louis
2023-01-31  8:14                                                                             ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-31 13:02                                                                               ` Jean Louis
2023-01-27 11:09                                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-27 12:49                                                                 ` Sterling Hooten
2023-01-27 13:00                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-27 15:03                                                                   ` Jean Louis
2023-01-30 13:08                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-27 20:58                                                                 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-30 11:25                                                                 ` Greg Minshall
2023-01-31 11:48                                                                   ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 12:19                                                                     ` Daryl Manning
2023-01-31 12:41                                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
     [not found]                                                                         ` <CAL9aZksf8AGF=dXg0KAtLPyu1ATt1fLpvdsjN6GMCuK2KRQ56w@mail.gmail.com>
2023-01-31 13:33                                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 13:22                                                                     ` Jean Louis
2023-01-31 13:46                                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 19:59                                                                         ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 12:42                                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 15:28                                                                             ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 16:30                                                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 20:12                                                                         ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01  5:46                                                                           ` tomas
2023-02-01  7:29                                                                             ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01  7:52                                                                             ` Tim Cross
2023-02-01  8:32                                                                               ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01  8:46                                                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01  9:38                                                                                 ` Tim Cross
2023-02-01 10:15                                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 14:53                                                                                     ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 16:36                                                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 10:46                                                                                   ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-01 14:43                                                                                   ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01 16:45                                                                                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02  3:05                                                                                       ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-02  8:59                                                                                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01  9:40                                                                                 ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info Stefan Nobis
2023-02-01  9:45                                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 14:38                                                                                 ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Jean Louis
2023-02-01 16:50                                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-03 15:48                                                                                   ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info Stefan Nobis
2023-02-04  5:07                                                                                     ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01  9:06                                                                             ` Stefan Nobis
2023-02-01  9:20                                                                               ` tomas
2023-02-01  9:48                                                                                 ` Stefan Nobis
2023-10-29  1:04                                                                                 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-06 15:34                                                                                   ` Marcin Borkowski
2023-02-06 17:03                                                                                     ` tomas
2023-02-07 21:08                                                                                     ` Jean Louis
2023-10-29  1:02                                                                               ` Jean Louis
2023-02-01  7:00                                                                           ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Thomas S. Dye
2023-02-01  7:41                                                                             ` Jean Louis
2023-01-31 17:56                                                                     ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info Fraga, Eric
2023-01-31 18:13                                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-31 18:22                                                                         ` Fraga, Eric
2023-01-31 18:56                                                                     ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Greg Minshall
2023-02-01 12:48                                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 12:52                                                                         ` tomas
2023-02-02  4:49                                                                           ` Greg Minshall
2023-01-31 20:41                                                                     ` Tim Cross
2023-01-31 23:50                                                                     ` Samuel Wales
2023-02-01 13:01                                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-04 22:33                                                                         ` Samuel Wales
2023-02-04 22:49                                                                           ` Samuel Wales
2023-02-05 10:38                                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 11:56                                                                     ` Christian Moe
2023-02-01 12:20                                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
     [not found]                                                                         ` <87o7qdsf7h.fsf@christianmoe.com>
2023-02-01 13:26                                                                           ` POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO (was: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda)) Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 13:51                                                                             ` tomas
2023-02-01 21:57                                                                               ` POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO (was: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info Heinz Tuechler
2023-02-01 22:50                                                                                 ` Samuel Wales
2023-02-02  9:01                                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02  3:22                                                                                 ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-02  7:45                                                                                   ` POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO Heinz Tuechler
2023-02-02  8:33                                                                                     ` tomas
2023-02-02  9:37                                                                                       ` Heinz Tuechler
2023-02-04 15:44                                                                                         ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-02  5:35                                                                                 ` POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO (was: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info tomas
2023-02-02  8:56                                                                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 15:16                                                                             ` POSIX TS spec reverses the meaning of TZ offset compared to ISO (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Max Nikulin
2023-02-02  8:34                                                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02 13:59                                                                                 ` Max Nikulin
2023-02-02 14:06                                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-01 15:41                                                                         ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info " Jean Louis
2023-02-02  8:38                                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-03 11:31                                                                             ` Jean Louis
2023-02-04 10:58                                                                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-04 19:32                                                                                 ` Jean Louis
2023-02-05  9:14                                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02  3:46                                                                     ` Timothy
2023-02-02  9:12                                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02  9:12                                                                         ` Timothy
2023-02-02  9:20                                                                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-02-02  9:27                                                                             ` Timothy
2023-02-02  9:38                                                                         ` [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info Stefan Nobis
2023-01-30 12:30                                                               ` [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-30 15:30                                                                 ` Greg Minshall
2023-01-30 15:38                                                                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-30 15:48                                                                     ` Greg Minshall
2023-01-20  4:03                                                   ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-20  5:39                                                     ` Tim Cross
2023-01-20  7:28                                                       ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-20  8:11                                                         ` Tim Cross
2023-01-20 15:29                                                           ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-20 22:56                                                             ` Tim Cross
2023-01-20  9:35                                                       ` Fraga, Eric
2023-01-20 10:48                                                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-20  6:46                                                     ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-20  7:34                                                       ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-20  8:17                                                       ` Tim Cross
2023-01-20 12:17                                                         ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-20 16:09                                                           ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-20 16:56                                                             ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-20 20:37                                                               ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-21  0:14                                                                 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-21  0:37                                                                   ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-21  5:53                                                                     ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-21 15:55                                                                       ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-22 12:14                                                                         ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-22 13:35                                                                           ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-22 14:09                                                                           ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-20 23:38                                                           ` Tim Cross
2023-01-21  6:21                                                             ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-21 21:29                                                               ` Tim Cross
2023-01-22  5:50                                                                 ` UTC or not UTC for timestamps in the past ([FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode) Max Nikulin
2023-01-22  6:17                                                                   ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-22  8:35                                                                     ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-22 16:54                                                                       ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-23  6:28                                                                         ` Jean Louis
2023-01-23 16:04                                                                           ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-24  2:34                                                                             ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-24  2:44                                                                               ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-24  4:48                                                                                 ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-24 19:18                                                                                   ` Jean Louis
2023-01-24  9:34                                                                             ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-24 16:41                                                                               ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-26 15:37                                                                             ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-26 16:31                                                                               ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-27 21:21                                                                                 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-22  7:48                                                                   ` Tim Cross
2023-01-24 17:09                                                                     ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-24 19:20                                                                       ` Jean Louis
2023-01-24 20:50                                                                       ` Tim Cross
2023-01-19 10:35                                           ` [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-19 17:57                                           ` Alexander Adolf
2023-01-21 13:51                                             ` Jean Louis
2023-01-18 17:09                                   ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-17  8:45                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-19 16:56                             ` Robert Horn
2023-01-19 17:44                           ` Alexander Adolf
2023-01-19 17:48                           ` Alexander Adolf
2023-01-17 15:37                     ` Jean Louis
2023-01-18  9:29                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-18 16:11                         ` Jean Louis
2023-01-18 21:31                         ` Tim Cross
2023-01-19 10:40                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-17 17:28                     ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-17 19:49                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-18 16:21                         ` Jean Louis
2023-01-18 16:20                       ` Jean Louis
2023-01-20 16:27                         ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-19 17:33                   ` Alexander Adolf
2023-01-16 20:25               ` Tim Cross
2023-01-17  9:07                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-17 15:24             ` Jean Louis
2023-01-18  9:34               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-18 16:07                 ` Jean Louis
2023-01-19 10:43                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-19 14:37                     ` Jean Louis
2023-01-15 20:43         ` Jean Louis
2023-01-16 11:25           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-17 15:19             ` Jean Louis
2023-01-18  9:38               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-16  5:01     ` Tom Gillespie
2023-01-16 12:31       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-16 20:32         ` Tim Cross
2023-01-16 20:51           ` Tom Gillespie
2023-01-17  9:12             ` [FR] Allow BC years in timestamps (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-13 19:06 ` [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Jean Louis
2023-01-14  7:12   ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-14  9:32     ` Tim Cross
2023-01-14 11:08       ` Russell Adams
2023-01-14 11:35         ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 12:00           ` Russell Adams
2023-01-14 12:16             ` [FR] Allow end date and max repeat count for timestamps with repeaters (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-15  1:09               ` Samuel Wales
2023-01-15 13:45                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-15 23:49                   ` Samuel Wales
2023-01-15 23:53                     ` Samuel Wales
2023-01-16 13:01                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 12:19             ` [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 12:21               ` Russell Adams
2023-01-14 12:31                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 11:30       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 14:09         ` Tim Cross
2023-01-14 14:38           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 14:48             ` tomas
2023-01-14 15:05               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 16:50                 ` tomas
2023-01-14 17:06                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 17:13                     ` tomas
2023-01-15 19:54                       ` Jean Louis
2023-01-14 21:52                     ` Tim Cross
2023-01-15 13:52                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-20 14:34                         ` Alexander Adolf
2023-01-15 20:03                       ` Jean Louis
2023-01-15 19:52                     ` Jean Louis
2023-01-16 13:11                       ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 20:56                   ` Tim Cross
2023-01-15 20:24                     ` Jean Louis
2023-01-15  4:37                 ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-15  5:03                 ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-15 20:28                   ` Jean Louis
2023-01-16 13:17                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 11:55       ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-14 13:50         ` Tim Cross
2023-01-14 16:50           ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-14 20:30             ` Tim Cross
2023-01-15  4:00               ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-15  7:53                 ` Tim Cross
2023-01-15 19:26                   ` Jean Louis
2023-01-16 13:20                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-15 14:00                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-14 13:08     ` Jean Louis
2023-01-14 16:58       ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-14 19:43         ` Tim Cross
2023-01-15  6:37           ` tomas
2023-01-15 14:07           ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-15 20:43             ` Tim Cross
2023-01-16  5:20               ` Tom Gillespie
2023-01-16 13:29                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-16 17:30                   ` Tom Gillespie
2023-01-16 17:53                     ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-16 13:27               ` Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-15 19:14           ` Jean Louis
2023-01-16  4:20             ` Max Nikulin
2023-01-15 19:12         ` Jean Louis
2023-01-14  5:14 ` Samuel Wales
2023-01-14  5:51   ` Tom Gillespie
2023-01-14  6:40     ` tomas
2023-01-26 15:24     ` Org mode timestamps on the Moon ;] (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Ihor Radchenko
2023-01-26 16:08       ` Org mode timestamps on the Moon ;] Fraga, Eric
2023-01-26 16:28         ` Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-26 23:40       ` Org mode timestamps on the Moon ;] (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) Tom Gillespie
2023-01-30 10:13         ` Org mode timestamps on the Moon ; ] " Greg Minshall
2023-01-30 13:05         ` Org mode timestamps on the Moon ;] " Ihor Radchenko
  -- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2023-01-15 19:16 [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda Thomas S. Dye
2023-01-28  6:26 Max Nikulin

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