* minimal testing setup for pdf export?
@ 2019-08-27 1:20 Matt Price
2019-08-27 3:26 ` Ken Mankoff
2019-08-27 6:14 ` Robert Klein
0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Matt Price @ 2019-08-27 1:20 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Org Mode
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 284 bytes --]
Can someone point me to a minimal setup for testing PDF export with "emacs
-Q"? I am unable to produce a pdf with default settings and I am pretty
sure that the latex is invalid... but I'm having trouble testing it since
I 9still) know so little about latex.
Thanks everyone!
Matt
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 391 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: minimal testing setup for pdf export?
2019-08-27 1:20 minimal testing setup for pdf export? Matt Price
@ 2019-08-27 3:26 ` Ken Mankoff
2019-08-27 6:14 ` Robert Klein
1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Ken Mankoff @ 2019-08-27 3:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Matt Price; +Cc: Org Mode
On 2019-08-27 at 03:20 +02, Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote...
> Can someone point me to a minimal setup for testing PDF export with "emacs
> -Q"? I am unable to produce a pdf with default settings and I am pretty
> sure that the latex is invalid... but I'm having trouble testing it since
> I 9still) know so little about latex.
I blank file is an MWE. It is highly unlikely Org is producing something invalid here. I'd look at operator error :) What version of Emacs? What version of Org?
-k.
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: minimal testing setup for pdf export?
2019-08-27 1:20 minimal testing setup for pdf export? Matt Price
2019-08-27 3:26 ` Ken Mankoff
@ 2019-08-27 6:14 ` Robert Klein
2019-08-27 10:34 ` Matt Price
1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Robert Klein @ 2019-08-27 6:14 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Matt Price; +Cc: Org Mode
On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 21:20:53 -0400
Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can someone point me to a minimal setup for testing PDF export with
> "emacs -Q"? I am unable to produce a pdf with default settings and I
> am pretty sure that the latex is invalid... but I'm having trouble
> testing it since I 9still) know so little about latex.
>
> Thanks everyone!
>
> Matt
What is in your *messages* buffer after the export attempt?
Whats the result when you export a blank “empty.org” file to LaTeX (C-c
C-e l l)? I get
--- snip ---
% Created 2019-08-27 Tue 08:10
% Intended LaTeX compiler: pdflatex
\documentclass[11pt]{article}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage{graphicx}
\usepackage{grffile}
\usepackage{longtable}
\usepackage{wrapfig}
\usepackage{rotating}
\usepackage[normalem]{ulem}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{textcomp}
\usepackage{amssymb}
\usepackage{capt-of}
\usepackage{hyperref}
\author{Robert Klein}
\date{\today}
\title{}
\hypersetup{
pdfauthor={Robert Klein},
pdftitle={},
pdfkeywords={},
pdfsubject={},
pdfcreator={Emacs 26.2 (Org mode 9.1.9)},
pdflang={English}}
\begin{document}
\tableofcontents
\end{document}
--- snip ---
Just in case, do you have latex/pdflatex installed and in your path?
Best regards
Robert
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: minimal testing setup for pdf export?
2019-08-27 6:14 ` Robert Klein
@ 2019-08-27 10:34 ` Matt Price
2019-08-27 11:55 ` Julius Dittmar
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Matt Price @ 2019-08-27 10:34 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Robert Klein; +Cc: Org Mode
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2936 bytes --]
My empty.tex is very similar:
% Created 2019-08-27 Tue 06:25
% Intended LaTeX compiler: pdflatex
\documentclass[11pt]{article}
\usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
\usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
\usepackage{graphicx}
\usepackage{grffile}
\usepackage{longtable}
\usepackage{wrapfig}
\usepackage{rotating}
\usepackage[normalem]{ulem}
\usepackage{amsmath}
\usepackage{textcomp}
\usepackage{amssymb}
\usepackage{capt-of}
\usepackage{hyperref}
\date{\today}
\title{}
\hypersetup{
pdfauthor={},
pdftitle={},
pdfkeywords={},
pdfsubject={},
pdfcreator={Emacs 27.0.50 (Org mode 9.1.9)},
pdflang={English}}
\begin{document}
\tableofcontents
\end{document}
Th pdf is still not being produced:
org-compile-file: File "/home/matt/empty.pdf" wasn’t produced. See "*Org
PDF LaTeX Output*" for details
Org LDF LaTeX Output says:
This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.20 (TeX Live 2019/Arch Linux)
(preloaded format=pdflatex)
restricted \write18 enabled.
entering extended mode
! I can't find file `empty.tex'.
<*> empty.tex
(Press Enter to retry, or Control-D to exit)
Please type another input file name
! Emergency stop.
<*> empty.tex
! ==> Fatal error occurred, no output PDF file produced!
Transcript written on .//texput.log.
However, empty.tex is clearly present. Latex and pdflatex are both in my
$PATH.
Maybe this is a problem with pdflatex?
On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 2:14 AM Robert Klein <roklein@roklein.de> wrote:
> On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 21:20:53 -0400
> Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Can someone point me to a minimal setup for testing PDF export with
> > "emacs -Q"? I am unable to produce a pdf with default settings and I
> > am pretty sure that the latex is invalid... but I'm having trouble
> > testing it since I 9still) know so little about latex.
> >
> > Thanks everyone!
> >
> > Matt
>
> What is in your *messages* buffer after the export attempt?
>
> Whats the result when you export a blank “empty.org” file to LaTeX (C-c
> C-e l l)? I get
>
> --- snip ---
> % Created 2019-08-27 Tue 08:10
> % Intended LaTeX compiler: pdflatex
> \documentclass[11pt]{article}
> \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}
> \usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
> \usepackage{graphicx}
> \usepackage{grffile}
> \usepackage{longtable}
> \usepackage{wrapfig}
> \usepackage{rotating}
> \usepackage[normalem]{ulem}
> \usepackage{amsmath}
> \usepackage{textcomp}
> \usepackage{amssymb}
> \usepackage{capt-of}
> \usepackage{hyperref}
> \author{Robert Klein}
> \date{\today}
> \title{}
> \hypersetup{
> pdfauthor={Robert Klein},
> pdftitle={},
> pdfkeywords={},
> pdfsubject={},
> pdfcreator={Emacs 26.2 (Org mode 9.1.9)},
> pdflang={English}}
> \begin{document}
>
> \tableofcontents
>
> \end{document}
> --- snip ---
>
> Just in case, do you have latex/pdflatex installed and in your path?
>
> Best regards
> Robert
>
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3914 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: minimal testing setup for pdf export?
2019-08-27 10:34 ` Matt Price
@ 2019-08-27 11:55 ` Julius Dittmar
2019-08-27 12:26 ` John Kitchin
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Julius Dittmar @ 2019-08-27 11:55 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Am 27.08.19 um 12:34 schrieb Matt Price:
> This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.20 (TeX Live 2019/Arch
> Linux) (preloaded format=pdflatex)
> restricted \write18 enabled.
> entering extended mode
> ! I can't find file `empty.tex'.
So pdflatex is called and found. Then pdflatex can't find empty.tex.
That looks like pdflatex is called in another directory than where
empty.tex resides. How that could happen, no idea.
Julius
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: minimal testing setup for pdf export?
2019-08-27 11:55 ` Julius Dittmar
@ 2019-08-27 12:26 ` John Kitchin
2019-08-27 12:57 ` Matt Price
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: John Kitchin @ 2019-08-27 12:26 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Julius Dittmar; +Cc: org-mode-email
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 857 bytes --]
Can you manually compile the empty.tex file from the command line? eg
pdflatex empty
John
-----------------------------------
Professor John Kitchin
Doherty Hall A207F
Department of Chemical Engineering
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
412-268-7803
@johnkitchin
http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu
On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 7:57 AM Julius Dittmar <Julius.Dittmar@gmx.de>
wrote:
> Am 27.08.19 um 12:34 schrieb Matt Price:
> > This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.20 (TeX Live 2019/Arch
> > Linux) (preloaded format=pdflatex)
> > restricted \write18 enabled.
> > entering extended mode
> > ! I can't find file `empty.tex'.
>
> So pdflatex is called and found. Then pdflatex can't find empty.tex.
> That looks like pdflatex is called in another directory than where
> empty.tex resides. How that could happen, no idea.
>
> Julius
>
>
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 1520 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: minimal testing setup for pdf export?
2019-08-27 12:26 ` John Kitchin
@ 2019-08-27 12:57 ` Matt Price
2019-08-27 17:32 ` John Kitchin
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Matt Price @ 2019-08-27 12:57 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: John Kitchin; +Cc: Julius Dittmar, org-mode-email
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1054 bytes --]
On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 8:27 AM John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu>
wrote:
> Can you manually compile the empty.tex file from the command line? eg
>
> pdflatex empty
>
> (reposting to group)
pdflatex empty
Seems to work fine. Hmmm...
> John
>
> -----------------------------------
> Professor John Kitchin
> Doherty Hall A207F
> Department of Chemical Engineering
> Carnegie Mellon University
> Pittsburgh, PA 15213
> 412-268-7803
> @johnkitchin
> http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 7:57 AM Julius Dittmar <Julius.Dittmar@gmx.de>
> wrote:
>
>> Am 27.08.19 um 12:34 schrieb Matt Price:
>> > This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.20 (TeX Live 2019/Arch
>> > Linux) (preloaded format=pdflatex)
>> > restricted \write18 enabled.
>> > entering extended mode
>> > ! I can't find file `empty.tex'.
>>
>> So pdflatex is called and found. Then pdflatex can't find empty.tex.
>> That looks like pdflatex is called in another directory than where
>> empty.tex resides. How that could happen, no idea.
>>
>> Julius
>>
>>
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 2214 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: minimal testing setup for pdf export?
2019-08-27 12:57 ` Matt Price
@ 2019-08-27 17:32 ` John Kitchin
2019-08-27 23:33 ` Matt Price
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: John Kitchin @ 2019-08-27 17:32 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Matt Price; +Cc: Julius Dittmar, org-mode-email
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1934 bytes --]
that does suggest that pdflatex is getting called somewhere else.
Maybe you can edebug the export function and check the value of
default-directory to see where it is getting called.
You could also try this
#+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
(defun my-build (quoted-tex-file)
(message "Building %s. Called from %s" quoted-tex-file default-directory))
(setq org-latex-pdf-process 'my-build)
#+END_SRC
It won't build the pdf, but it will tell you in the messages where it was
called from. It might help figure out what is happening.
John
-----------------------------------
Professor John Kitchin
Doherty Hall A207F
Department of Chemical Engineering
Carnegie Mellon University
Pittsburgh, PA 15213
412-268-7803
@johnkitchin
http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu
On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 8:57 AM Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 8:27 AM John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu>
> wrote:
>
>> Can you manually compile the empty.tex file from the command line? eg
>>
>> pdflatex empty
>>
>> (reposting to group)
>
> pdflatex empty
>
> Seems to work fine. Hmmm...
>
>> John
>>
>> -----------------------------------
>> Professor John Kitchin
>> Doherty Hall A207F
>> Department of Chemical Engineering
>> Carnegie Mellon University
>> Pittsburgh, PA 15213
>> 412-268-7803
>> @johnkitchin
>> http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 7:57 AM Julius Dittmar <Julius.Dittmar@gmx.de>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Am 27.08.19 um 12:34 schrieb Matt Price:
>>> > This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.20 (TeX Live 2019/Arch
>>> > Linux) (preloaded format=pdflatex)
>>> > restricted \write18 enabled.
>>> > entering extended mode
>>> > ! I can't find file `empty.tex'.
>>>
>>> So pdflatex is called and found. Then pdflatex can't find empty.tex.
>>> That looks like pdflatex is called in another directory than where
>>> empty.tex resides. How that could happen, no idea.
>>>
>>> Julius
>>>
>>>
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 3775 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: minimal testing setup for pdf export?
2019-08-27 17:32 ` John Kitchin
@ 2019-08-27 23:33 ` Matt Price
2019-08-28 8:29 ` Julius Dittmar
2019-08-29 15:27 ` John Hendy
0 siblings, 2 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Matt Price @ 2019-08-27 23:33 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: John Kitchin; +Cc: Julius Dittmar, org-mode-email
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2456 bytes --]
On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 1:33 PM John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu>
wrote:
> that does suggest that pdflatex is getting called somewhere else.
>
> Maybe you can edebug the export function and check the value of
> default-directory to see where it is getting called.
>
> You could also try this
>
> #+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
> (defun my-build (quoted-tex-file)
> (message "Building %s. Called from %s" quoted-tex-file
> default-directory))
>
> (setq org-latex-pdf-process 'my-build)
> #+END_SRC
>
> It won't build the pdf, but it will tell you in the messages where it was
> called from. It might help figure out what is happening.
>
huh. that was kinda cool... but the value of default-directory seems to be
correct. However, this helped a bit:
#+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
(shell-command-to-string "echo $PWD")
#+END_SRC
#+RESULTS:
: /home/matt/src/org-mode
Not sure what's going on here, but this value is the same in a regular
emacs and "emacs -Q". is this normal?
John
>
> -----------------------------------
> Professor John Kitchin
> Doherty Hall A207F
> Department of Chemical Engineering
> Carnegie Mellon University
> Pittsburgh, PA 15213
> 412-268-7803
> @johnkitchin
> http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 8:57 AM Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 8:27 AM John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Can you manually compile the empty.tex file from the command line? eg
>>>
>>> pdflatex empty
>>>
>>> (reposting to group)
>>
>> pdflatex empty
>>
>> Seems to work fine. Hmmm...
>>
>>> John
>>>
>>> -----------------------------------
>>> Professor John Kitchin
>>> Doherty Hall A207F
>>> Department of Chemical Engineering
>>> Carnegie Mellon University
>>> Pittsburgh, PA 15213
>>> 412-268-7803
>>> @johnkitchin
>>> http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 7:57 AM Julius Dittmar <Julius.Dittmar@gmx.de>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Am 27.08.19 um 12:34 schrieb Matt Price:
>>>> > This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.20 (TeX Live 2019/Arch
>>>> > Linux) (preloaded format=pdflatex)
>>>> > restricted \write18 enabled.
>>>> > entering extended mode
>>>> > ! I can't find file `empty.tex'.
>>>>
>>>> So pdflatex is called and found. Then pdflatex can't find empty.tex.
>>>> That looks like pdflatex is called in another directory than where
>>>> empty.tex resides. How that could happen, no idea.
>>>>
>>>> Julius
>>>>
>>>>
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 5017 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: minimal testing setup for pdf export?
2019-08-27 23:33 ` Matt Price
@ 2019-08-28 8:29 ` Julius Dittmar
2019-08-29 15:27 ` John Hendy
1 sibling, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Julius Dittmar @ 2019-08-28 8:29 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: org-mode-email
Am 28.08.19 um 01:33 schrieb Matt Price:
> huh. that was kinda cool... but the value of default-directory seems to
> be correct. However, this helped a bit:
>
> #+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
> (shell-command-to-string "echo $PWD")
>
> #+END_SRC
>
>
> #+RESULTS:
> : /home/matt/src/org-mode
>
> Not sure what's going on here, but this value is the same in a regular
> emacs and "emacs -Q". is this normal?
For me, with "emacs -Q", this reliably returns the path from which I
started emacs.
HTH,
Julius
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: minimal testing setup for pdf export?
2019-08-27 23:33 ` Matt Price
2019-08-28 8:29 ` Julius Dittmar
@ 2019-08-29 15:27 ` John Hendy
2019-08-30 14:13 ` Matt Price
1 sibling, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: John Hendy @ 2019-08-29 15:27 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Matt Price; +Cc: Julius Dittmar, org-mode-email, John Kitchin
On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 6:34 PM Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 1:33 PM John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>>
>> that does suggest that pdflatex is getting called somewhere else.
>>
>> Maybe you can edebug the export function and check the value of default-directory to see where it is getting called.
>>
>> You could also try this
>>
>> #+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
>> (defun my-build (quoted-tex-file)
>> (message "Building %s. Called from %s" quoted-tex-file default-directory))
>>
>> (setq org-latex-pdf-process 'my-build)
>> #+END_SRC
>>
>> It won't build the pdf, but it will tell you in the messages where it was called from. It might help figure out what is happening.
>
>
> huh. that was kinda cool... but the value of default-directory seems to be correct. However, this helped a bit:
>
> #+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
> (shell-command-to-string "echo $PWD")
>
> #+END_SRC
>
>
> #+RESULTS:
> : /home/matt/src/org-mode
>
> Not sure what's going on here, but this value is the same in a regular emacs and "emacs -Q". is this normal?
>
Did this get solved? It kind of bothers me to think it hasn't. I also
think this is a case where erring on the side of overwhelming details
would help a lot. Could you start from the beginning with the exact
process using emacs -Q, post the full output of *Messages* and *Org
PDF LaTeX Output*? Like in the above, you post the output of $PWD, but
not what the *Messages* buffer contained from John's code. Maybe they
are the same, maybe they are different, but we can't tell.
Example:
$ cd ~/
$ emacs -Q
M-x org-version
Org mode version 9.1.9 (release_9.1.9-65-g5e4542 @
/usr/share/emacs/26.2/lisp/org/)
C-x C-f pdf-test.org
File contents:
* foo
<eof>
C-x C-s
C-c C-e l p
$ ls ~/
pdf-test.org
pdf-test.pdf
pdf-test.tex
Alternatively, insert the code from John Kitchin:
Wrote /home/jwhendy/pdf-text.org
org-babel-exp process emacs-lisp at position 8...
Saving file /home/jwhendy/pdf-text.tex...
Wrote /home/jwhendy/pdf-text.tex
Processing LaTeX file pdf-text.tex...
Building pdf-text.tex. Called from /home/jwhendy/
org-compile-file: File "/home/jwhendy/pdf-text.pdf" wasn’t produced.
See "*Org PDF LaTeX Output*" for details
I still don't feel I understand the full nature of your working
directory, what does and doesn't get saved in that directory, etc. I'd
love to help, but am not able to replicate for you!
Thanks,
John
>
>> John
>>
>> -----------------------------------
>> Professor John Kitchin
>> Doherty Hall A207F
>> Department of Chemical Engineering
>> Carnegie Mellon University
>> Pittsburgh, PA 15213
>> 412-268-7803
>> @johnkitchin
>> http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 8:57 AM Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 8:27 AM John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Can you manually compile the empty.tex file from the command line? eg
>>>>
>>>> pdflatex empty
>>>>
>>> (reposting to group)
>>>
>>> pdflatex empty
>>>
>>> Seems to work fine. Hmmm...
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>> -----------------------------------
>>>> Professor John Kitchin
>>>> Doherty Hall A207F
>>>> Department of Chemical Engineering
>>>> Carnegie Mellon University
>>>> Pittsburgh, PA 15213
>>>> 412-268-7803
>>>> @johnkitchin
>>>> http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 7:57 AM Julius Dittmar <Julius.Dittmar@gmx.de> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Am 27.08.19 um 12:34 schrieb Matt Price:
>>>>> > This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.20 (TeX Live 2019/Arch
>>>>> > Linux) (preloaded format=pdflatex)
>>>>> > restricted \write18 enabled.
>>>>> > entering extended mode
>>>>> > ! I can't find file `empty.tex'.
>>>>>
>>>>> So pdflatex is called and found. Then pdflatex can't find empty.tex.
>>>>> That looks like pdflatex is called in another directory than where
>>>>> empty.tex resides. How that could happen, no idea.
>>>>>
>>>>> Julius
>>>>>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: minimal testing setup for pdf export?
2019-08-29 15:27 ` John Hendy
@ 2019-08-30 14:13 ` Matt Price
2019-08-30 14:45 ` John Hendy
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Matt Price @ 2019-08-30 14:13 UTC (permalink / raw)
Cc: org-mode-email
[-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 5203 bytes --]
On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 11:27 AM John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 6:34 PM Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 1:33 PM John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> that does suggest that pdflatex is getting called somewhere else.
> >>
> >> Maybe you can edebug the export function and check the value of
> default-directory to see where it is getting called.
> >>
> >> You could also try this
> >>
> >> #+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
> >> (defun my-build (quoted-tex-file)
> >> (message "Building %s. Called from %s" quoted-tex-file
> default-directory))
> >>
> >> (setq org-latex-pdf-process 'my-build)
> >> #+END_SRC
> >>
> >> It won't build the pdf, but it will tell you in the messages where it
> was called from. It might help figure out what is happening.
> >
> >
> > huh. that was kinda cool... but the value of default-directory seems to
> be correct. However, this helped a bit:
> >
> > #+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
> > (shell-command-to-string "echo $PWD")
> >
> > #+END_SRC
> >
> >
> > #+RESULTS:
> > : /home/matt/src/org-mode
> >
> > Not sure what's going on here, but this value is the same in a regular
> emacs and "emacs -Q". is this normal?
> >
>
> Did this get solved? It kind of bothers me to think it hasn't. I also
> think this is a case where erring on the side of overwhelming details
> would help a lot. Could you start from the beginning with the exact
> process using emacs -Q, post the full output of *Messages* and *Org
> PDF LaTeX Output*? Like in the above, you post the output of $PWD, but
> not what the *Messages* buffer contained from John's code. Maybe they
> are the same, maybe they are different, but we can't tell.
>
> Example:
> $ cd ~/
> $ emacs -Q
>
> M-x org-version
> Org mode version 9.1.9 (release_9.1.9-65-g5e4542 @
> /usr/share/emacs/26.2/lisp/org/)
>
> C-x C-f pdf-test.org
>
> File contents:
> * foo
> <eof>
>
> C-x C-s
> C-c C-e l p
>
> $ ls ~/
> pdf-test.org
> pdf-test.pdf
> pdf-test.tex
>
> Alternatively, insert the code from John Kitchin:
>
> Wrote /home/jwhendy/pdf-text.org
> org-babel-exp process emacs-lisp at position 8...
> Saving file /home/jwhendy/pdf-text.tex...
> Wrote /home/jwhendy/pdf-text.tex
> Processing LaTeX file pdf-text.tex...
> Building pdf-text.tex. Called from /home/jwhendy/
> org-compile-file: File "/home/jwhendy/pdf-text.pdf" wasn’t produced.
> See "*Org PDF LaTeX Output*" for details
>
> I still don't feel I understand the full nature of your working
> directory, what does and doesn't get saved in that directory, etc. I'd
> love to help, but am not able to replicate for you!
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
> John H,
Thank you so much for the detailed instructions. I had a moment this
morning so I updated Emacs, rebooted my laptop, and started to follow your
instructions as closely as possible... and I can no longer reproduce my
problem. I feel like I should be happier than I am! I wonder if perhaps
there was some kind of strange path problem caused by a software update
that I didn't pay attention to.
In any case, I am as always grateful for the efforts of people on this list
-- I learned at least a little bit about latex export and feel that I might
finally be getting a little closer to where I need to be.
Meanwhile, if the issue shows up again I'll be sure to check back in.
Thanks!
Matt
>
> >
> >> John
> >>
> >> -----------------------------------
> >> Professor John Kitchin
> >> Doherty Hall A207F
> >> Department of Chemical Engineering
> >> Carnegie Mellon University
> >> Pittsburgh, PA 15213
> >> 412-268-7803
> >> @johnkitchin
> >> http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 8:57 AM Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 8:27 AM John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Can you manually compile the empty.tex file from the command line? eg
> >>>>
> >>>> pdflatex empty
> >>>>
> >>> (reposting to group)
> >>>
> >>> pdflatex empty
> >>>
> >>> Seems to work fine. Hmmm...
> >>>>
> >>>> John
> >>>>
> >>>> -----------------------------------
> >>>> Professor John Kitchin
> >>>> Doherty Hall A207F
> >>>> Department of Chemical Engineering
> >>>> Carnegie Mellon University
> >>>> Pittsburgh, PA 15213
> >>>> 412-268-7803
> >>>> @johnkitchin
> >>>> http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 7:57 AM Julius Dittmar <Julius.Dittmar@gmx.de>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Am 27.08.19 um 12:34 schrieb Matt Price:
> >>>>> > This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.20 (TeX Live 2019/Arch
> >>>>> > Linux) (preloaded format=pdflatex)
> >>>>> > restricted \write18 enabled.
> >>>>> > entering extended mode
> >>>>> > ! I can't find file `empty.tex'.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So pdflatex is called and found. Then pdflatex can't find empty.tex.
> >>>>> That looks like pdflatex is called in another directory than where
> >>>>> empty.tex resides. How that could happen, no idea.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Julius
> >>>>>
>
[-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 7646 bytes --]
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: minimal testing setup for pdf export?
2019-08-30 14:13 ` Matt Price
@ 2019-08-30 14:45 ` John Hendy
2019-08-30 18:11 ` Jude DaShiell
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: John Hendy @ 2019-08-30 14:45 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Matt Price; +Cc: org-mode-email
Whew, the world is whole again! No worries, and I've been in the exact
same situation more than I'd like. We joke at work that if you want to
fix a problem, just ask someone to come watch it happen and it will
magically go away :)
Glad you're on your way!
John
On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 9:27 AM Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 11:27 AM John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 6:34 PM Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 1:33 PM John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> that does suggest that pdflatex is getting called somewhere else.
>> >>
>> >> Maybe you can edebug the export function and check the value of default-directory to see where it is getting called.
>> >>
>> >> You could also try this
>> >>
>> >> #+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
>> >> (defun my-build (quoted-tex-file)
>> >> (message "Building %s. Called from %s" quoted-tex-file default-directory))
>> >>
>> >> (setq org-latex-pdf-process 'my-build)
>> >> #+END_SRC
>> >>
>> >> It won't build the pdf, but it will tell you in the messages where it was called from. It might help figure out what is happening.
>> >
>> >
>> > huh. that was kinda cool... but the value of default-directory seems to be correct. However, this helped a bit:
>> >
>> > #+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
>> > (shell-command-to-string "echo $PWD")
>> >
>> > #+END_SRC
>> >
>> >
>> > #+RESULTS:
>> > : /home/matt/src/org-mode
>> >
>> > Not sure what's going on here, but this value is the same in a regular emacs and "emacs -Q". is this normal?
>> >
>>
>> Did this get solved? It kind of bothers me to think it hasn't. I also
>> think this is a case where erring on the side of overwhelming details
>> would help a lot. Could you start from the beginning with the exact
>> process using emacs -Q, post the full output of *Messages* and *Org
>> PDF LaTeX Output*? Like in the above, you post the output of $PWD, but
>> not what the *Messages* buffer contained from John's code. Maybe they
>> are the same, maybe they are different, but we can't tell.
>>
>> Example:
>> $ cd ~/
>> $ emacs -Q
>>
>> M-x org-version
>> Org mode version 9.1.9 (release_9.1.9-65-g5e4542 @
>> /usr/share/emacs/26.2/lisp/org/)
>>
>> C-x C-f pdf-test.org
>>
>> File contents:
>> * foo
>> <eof>
>>
>> C-x C-s
>> C-c C-e l p
>>
>> $ ls ~/
>> pdf-test.org
>> pdf-test.pdf
>> pdf-test.tex
>>
>> Alternatively, insert the code from John Kitchin:
>>
>> Wrote /home/jwhendy/pdf-text.org
>> org-babel-exp process emacs-lisp at position 8...
>> Saving file /home/jwhendy/pdf-text.tex...
>> Wrote /home/jwhendy/pdf-text.tex
>> Processing LaTeX file pdf-text.tex...
>> Building pdf-text.tex. Called from /home/jwhendy/
>> org-compile-file: File "/home/jwhendy/pdf-text.pdf" wasn’t produced.
>> See "*Org PDF LaTeX Output*" for details
>>
>> I still don't feel I understand the full nature of your working
>> directory, what does and doesn't get saved in that directory, etc. I'd
>> love to help, but am not able to replicate for you!
>>
>> Thanks,
>> John
>>
> John H,
> Thank you so much for the detailed instructions. I had a moment this morning so I updated Emacs, rebooted my laptop, and started to follow your instructions as closely as possible... and I can no longer reproduce my problem. I feel like I should be happier than I am! I wonder if perhaps there was some kind of strange path problem caused by a software update that I didn't pay attention to.
>
> In any case, I am as always grateful for the efforts of people on this list -- I learned at least a little bit about latex export and feel that I might finally be getting a little closer to where I need to be.
>
> Meanwhile, if the issue shows up again I'll be sure to check back in.
>
> Thanks!
> Matt
>
>
>>
>>
>> >
>> >> John
>> >>
>> >> -----------------------------------
>> >> Professor John Kitchin
>> >> Doherty Hall A207F
>> >> Department of Chemical Engineering
>> >> Carnegie Mellon University
>> >> Pittsburgh, PA 15213
>> >> 412-268-7803
>> >> @johnkitchin
>> >> http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 8:57 AM Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 8:27 AM John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Can you manually compile the empty.tex file from the command line? eg
>> >>>>
>> >>>> pdflatex empty
>> >>>>
>> >>> (reposting to group)
>> >>>
>> >>> pdflatex empty
>> >>>
>> >>> Seems to work fine. Hmmm...
>> >>>>
>> >>>> John
>> >>>>
>> >>>> -----------------------------------
>> >>>> Professor John Kitchin
>> >>>> Doherty Hall A207F
>> >>>> Department of Chemical Engineering
>> >>>> Carnegie Mellon University
>> >>>> Pittsburgh, PA 15213
>> >>>> 412-268-7803
>> >>>> @johnkitchin
>> >>>> http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 7:57 AM Julius Dittmar <Julius.Dittmar@gmx.de> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Am 27.08.19 um 12:34 schrieb Matt Price:
>> >>>>> > This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.20 (TeX Live 2019/Arch
>> >>>>> > Linux) (preloaded format=pdflatex)
>> >>>>> > restricted \write18 enabled.
>> >>>>> > entering extended mode
>> >>>>> > ! I can't find file `empty.tex'.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> So pdflatex is called and found. Then pdflatex can't find empty.tex.
>> >>>>> That looks like pdflatex is called in another directory than where
>> >>>>> empty.tex resides. How that could happen, no idea.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Julius
>> >>>>>
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: minimal testing setup for pdf export?
2019-08-30 14:45 ` John Hendy
@ 2019-08-30 18:11 ` Jude DaShiell
2019-08-30 20:07 ` Nick Dokos
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Jude DaShiell @ 2019-08-30 18:11 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: John Hendy, Matt Price; +Cc: org-mode-email
It would be helpful if when pdf get exported from orgmode they have
speech enabled by default.
On Fri, 30 Aug 2019, John Hendy wrote:
> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 10:45:08
> From: John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com>
> To: Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com>
> Cc: org-mode-email <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
> Subject: Re: [O] minimal testing setup for pdf export?
>
> Whew, the world is whole again! No worries, and I've been in the exact
> same situation more than I'd like. We joke at work that if you want to
> fix a problem, just ask someone to come watch it happen and it will
> magically go away :)
>
> Glad you're on your way!
> John
>
> On Fri, Aug 30, 2019 at 9:27 AM Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 11:27 AM John Hendy <jw.hendy@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 6:34 PM Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 1:33 PM John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> that does suggest that pdflatex is getting called somewhere else.
> >> >>
> >> >> Maybe you can edebug the export function and check the value of default-directory to see where it is getting called.
> >> >>
> >> >> You could also try this
> >> >>
> >> >> #+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
> >> >> (defun my-build (quoted-tex-file)
> >> >> (message "Building %s. Called from %s" quoted-tex-file default-directory))
> >> >>
> >> >> (setq org-latex-pdf-process 'my-build)
> >> >> #+END_SRC
> >> >>
> >> >> It won't build the pdf, but it will tell you in the messages where it was called from. It might help figure out what is happening.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > huh. that was kinda cool... but the value of default-directory seems to be correct. However, this helped a bit:
> >> >
> >> > #+BEGIN_SRC emacs-lisp
> >> > (shell-command-to-string "echo $PWD")
> >> >
> >> > #+END_SRC
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > #+RESULTS:
> >> > : /home/matt/src/org-mode
> >> >
> >> > Not sure what's going on here, but this value is the same in a regular emacs and "emacs -Q". is this normal?
> >> >
> >>
> >> Did this get solved? It kind of bothers me to think it hasn't. I also
> >> think this is a case where erring on the side of overwhelming details
> >> would help a lot. Could you start from the beginning with the exact
> >> process using emacs -Q, post the full output of *Messages* and *Org
> >> PDF LaTeX Output*? Like in the above, you post the output of $PWD, but
> >> not what the *Messages* buffer contained from John's code. Maybe they
> >> are the same, maybe they are different, but we can't tell.
> >>
> >> Example:
> >> $ cd ~/
> >> $ emacs -Q
> >>
> >> M-x org-version
> >> Org mode version 9.1.9 (release_9.1.9-65-g5e4542 @
> >> /usr/share/emacs/26.2/lisp/org/)
> >>
> >> C-x C-f pdf-test.org
> >>
> >> File contents:
> >> * foo
> >> <eof>
> >>
> >> C-x C-s
> >> C-c C-e l p
> >>
> >> $ ls ~/
> >> pdf-test.org
> >> pdf-test.pdf
> >> pdf-test.tex
> >>
> >> Alternatively, insert the code from John Kitchin:
> >>
> >> Wrote /home/jwhendy/pdf-text.org
> >> org-babel-exp process emacs-lisp at position 8...
> >> Saving file /home/jwhendy/pdf-text.tex...
> >> Wrote /home/jwhendy/pdf-text.tex
> >> Processing LaTeX file pdf-text.tex...
> >> Building pdf-text.tex. Called from /home/jwhendy/
> >> org-compile-file: File "/home/jwhendy/pdf-text.pdf" wasn?t produced.
> >> See "*Org PDF LaTeX Output*" for details
> >>
> >> I still don't feel I understand the full nature of your working
> >> directory, what does and doesn't get saved in that directory, etc. I'd
> >> love to help, but am not able to replicate for you!
> >>
> >> Thanks,
> >> John
> >>
> > John H,
> > Thank you so much for the detailed instructions. I had a moment this morning so I updated Emacs, rebooted my laptop, and started to follow your instructions as closely as possible... and I can no longer reproduce my problem. I feel like I should be happier than I am! I wonder if perhaps there was some kind of strange path problem caused by a software update that I didn't pay attention to.
> >
> > In any case, I am as always grateful for the efforts of people on this list -- I learned at least a little bit about latex export and feel that I might finally be getting a little closer to where I need to be.
> >
> > Meanwhile, if the issue shows up again I'll be sure to check back in.
> >
> > Thanks!
> > Matt
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> >> John
> >> >>
> >> >> -----------------------------------
> >> >> Professor John Kitchin
> >> >> Doherty Hall A207F
> >> >> Department of Chemical Engineering
> >> >> Carnegie Mellon University
> >> >> Pittsburgh, PA 15213
> >> >> 412-268-7803
> >> >> @johnkitchin
> >> >> http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 8:57 AM Matt Price <moptop99@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 8:27 AM John Kitchin <jkitchin@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Can you manually compile the empty.tex file from the command line? eg
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> pdflatex empty
> >> >>>>
> >> >>> (reposting to group)
> >> >>>
> >> >>> pdflatex empty
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Seems to work fine. Hmmm...
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> John
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> -----------------------------------
> >> >>>> Professor John Kitchin
> >> >>>> Doherty Hall A207F
> >> >>>> Department of Chemical Engineering
> >> >>>> Carnegie Mellon University
> >> >>>> Pittsburgh, PA 15213
> >> >>>> 412-268-7803
> >> >>>> @johnkitchin
> >> >>>> http://kitchingroup.cheme.cmu.edu
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> On Tue, Aug 27, 2019 at 7:57 AM Julius Dittmar <Julius.Dittmar@gmx.de> wrote:
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Am 27.08.19 um 12:34 schrieb Matt Price:
> >> >>>>> > This is pdfTeX, Version 3.14159265-2.6-1.40.20 (TeX Live 2019/Arch
> >> >>>>> > Linux) (preloaded format=pdflatex)
> >> >>>>> > restricted \write18 enabled.
> >> >>>>> > entering extended mode
> >> >>>>> > ! I can't find file `empty.tex'.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> So pdflatex is called and found. Then pdflatex can't find empty.tex.
> >> >>>>> That looks like pdflatex is called in another directory than where
> >> >>>>> empty.tex resides. How that could happen, no idea.
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>>> Julius
> >> >>>>>
>
>
--
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: minimal testing setup for pdf export?
2019-08-30 18:11 ` Jude DaShiell
@ 2019-08-30 20:07 ` Nick Dokos
2019-08-30 21:10 ` Jude DaShiell
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Nick Dokos @ 2019-08-30 20:07 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode
Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> writes:
> It would be helpful if when pdf get exported from orgmode they have
> speech enabled by default.
>
Not sure that org mode can do anything about, since it's LaTeX that produces
the PDF. That said, I'm not sure what needs to be done: what's the difference
between a speech-enabled PDF and a non-speech-enabled one?
--
Nick
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: minimal testing setup for pdf export?
2019-08-30 20:07 ` Nick Dokos
@ 2019-08-30 21:10 ` Jude DaShiell
2019-08-30 23:31 ` Tim Cross
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Jude DaShiell @ 2019-08-30 21:10 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Nick Dokos, emacs-orgmode
most of the books sold on google play books are speech-disabled by
publishers. The adobe accessibility site has speech-enabled
accessibility examples. I think it's a matter of a single control that
is either enabled or disabled. Oh, the IRS has speech-enabled pdf tax
forms anyone can download. I nearly forgot about that one. The 1099R
form is a short one so it ought to be pretty quick to find the setting
in one of those forms.
On Fri, 30 Aug 2019, Nick Dokos wrote:
> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 16:07:49
> From: Nick Dokos <ndokos@gmail.com>
> To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: [O] minimal testing setup for pdf export?
>
> Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> writes:
>
> > It would be helpful if when pdf get exported from orgmode they have
> > speech enabled by default.
> >
>
> Not sure that org mode can do anything about, since it's LaTeX that produces
> the PDF. That said, I'm not sure what needs to be done: what's the difference
> between a speech-enabled PDF and a non-speech-enabled one?
>
>
--
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: minimal testing setup for pdf export?
2019-08-30 21:10 ` Jude DaShiell
@ 2019-08-30 23:31 ` Tim Cross
2019-08-30 23:59 ` Jude DaShiell
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Tim Cross @ 2019-08-30 23:31 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: emacs-orgmode; +Cc: Nick Dokos
I think the main thing which needs to be in the PDF is structure
'tagging'. Unfortunately, making truly accessible PDFs is the one area
I've found where the 'TeX suite is weak. I was tracking some discussions
about this on the various TeX and Latex lists and it seems that to add
the necessary information needed to create accessible PDFs requires a
major redesign of TeX internals.
It has been a while since I looked at this, but I do believe there are
some add-on latex packages which can help a bit, but creating PDFs which
meet minimal accessibility requirement tests is currently not possible.
IIRC the speech-disabling feature is not part of the PDF spec. This is
somethinhg added by Adobe (along with other DRM support). This is no
'switch' so to speak in plain PDF documents as the PDF spec predates
considerations like TTS or even accessibility.
Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> writes:
> most of the books sold on google play books are speech-disabled by
> publishers. The adobe accessibility site has speech-enabled
> accessibility examples. I think it's a matter of a single control that
> is either enabled or disabled. Oh, the IRS has speech-enabled pdf tax
> forms anyone can download. I nearly forgot about that one. The 1099R
> form is a short one so it ought to be pretty quick to find the setting
> in one of those forms.
>
> On Fri, 30 Aug 2019, Nick Dokos wrote:
>
>> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 16:07:49
>> From: Nick Dokos <ndokos@gmail.com>
>> To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> Subject: Re: [O] minimal testing setup for pdf export?
>>
>> Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> writes:
>>
>> > It would be helpful if when pdf get exported from orgmode they have
>> > speech enabled by default.
>> >
>>
>> Not sure that org mode can do anything about, since it's LaTeX that produces
>> the PDF. That said, I'm not sure what needs to be done: what's the difference
>> between a speech-enabled PDF and a non-speech-enabled one?
>>
>>
--
Tim Cross
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: minimal testing setup for pdf export?
2019-08-30 23:31 ` Tim Cross
@ 2019-08-30 23:59 ` Jude DaShiell
2019-08-31 1:46 ` Tim Cross
0 siblings, 1 reply; 19+ messages in thread
From: Jude DaShiell @ 2019-08-30 23:59 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Tim Cross, emacs-orgmode; +Cc: Nick Dokos
Okay, orgmode pdf files will be inaccessible for the foreseeable future.
Has anyone had any luck extracting text however mangled from one of
these with pdftotext or similar tools? If that's not possible that will
be another good thing to know.
On Sat, 31 Aug 2019, Tim Cross wrote:
> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 19:31:32
> From: Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
> To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> Cc: Nick Dokos <ndokos@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [O] minimal testing setup for pdf export?
>
>
> I think the main thing which needs to be in the PDF is structure
> 'tagging'. Unfortunately, making truly accessible PDFs is the one area
> I've found where the 'TeX suite is weak. I was tracking some discussions
> about this on the various TeX and Latex lists and it seems that to add
> the necessary information needed to create accessible PDFs requires a
> major redesign of TeX internals.
>
> It has been a while since I looked at this, but I do believe there are
> some add-on latex packages which can help a bit, but creating PDFs which
> meet minimal accessibility requirement tests is currently not possible.
>
> IIRC the speech-disabling feature is not part of the PDF spec. This is
> somethinhg added by Adobe (along with other DRM support). This is no
> 'switch' so to speak in plain PDF documents as the PDF spec predates
> considerations like TTS or even accessibility.
>
>
> Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> writes:
>
> > most of the books sold on google play books are speech-disabled by
> > publishers. The adobe accessibility site has speech-enabled
> > accessibility examples. I think it's a matter of a single control that
> > is either enabled or disabled. Oh, the IRS has speech-enabled pdf tax
> > forms anyone can download. I nearly forgot about that one. The 1099R
> > form is a short one so it ought to be pretty quick to find the setting
> > in one of those forms.
> >
> > On Fri, 30 Aug 2019, Nick Dokos wrote:
> >
> >> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 16:07:49
> >> From: Nick Dokos <ndokos@gmail.com>
> >> To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> >> Subject: Re: [O] minimal testing setup for pdf export?
> >>
> >> Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> writes:
> >>
> >> > It would be helpful if when pdf get exported from orgmode they have
> >> > speech enabled by default.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Not sure that org mode can do anything about, since it's LaTeX that produces
> >> the PDF. That said, I'm not sure what needs to be done: what's the difference
> >> between a speech-enabled PDF and a non-speech-enabled one?
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
--
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
* Re: minimal testing setup for pdf export?
2019-08-30 23:59 ` Jude DaShiell
@ 2019-08-31 1:46 ` Tim Cross
0 siblings, 0 replies; 19+ messages in thread
From: Tim Cross @ 2019-08-31 1:46 UTC (permalink / raw)
To: Jude DaShiell; +Cc: Nick Dokos, emacs-orgmode
To be a little precise, Org mode PDF documents created using the default
Latex classes are not going to meet minimal accessibility standards. The
extent to which they can be accessed using accessibility software will
depend largely on the structure of the underlying PDF. I have not
investigated other workflows for generating PDFs from org (for example,
what happens if you go to some other intermediate format, like HTML or
markdown etc) and then to PDF using a different tool to generate the
final PDF. Likewise, I don't know if some of the TeX pdf generators are
better than others (this is partly why it gets complicated - there are
multiple workflows to generate PDFs from Latex). There are people
working on additional latex packages to address this accessibility
requirement. However, either they are only at experimental status or
require significant configuration and setup or require the author to
manually add additional data, making them inappropriate for org-mode.
With PDFs, the level of accessibility does depend a lot on the structure
of the underlying document. Even PDFs without full tagging can be
reasonably accessible if the structure of the data in the PDF is
straight-forward i.e. not lots of tables, multi-column, lots
of footnotes and internal references etc. If the data flow in the
document is reasonably 'linear', then it isn't too bad. If the document
has lots of embedded postscript or any image like data, that will not be
accessible and will not be tagged adequately. Likewise, I've found stuff
generated in math mode is typically inaccessible.
The various text extraction tools, like pdftotext are able to extract
the text. However, because it cannot determine the structure with any
accuracy, it can tend to be somewhat jumbled and have a bit of
'garbage'. Again, how good/bad this is depends on the underlying PDF
structure.
You might find the following links useful -
https://www.tug.org/twg/accessibility/
https://tug.org/pipermail/accessibility/2016q4/000005.html
You might be able to improve the accessibility of PDFs generated from
Latex by adding some of the (mostly experimental) additional packages to
your Org mode setup. However, this will probably have some unfortunate
side effects or corner cases (which is why I don't just recommend adding
these packages as defaults in org itself).
There has been an item on my todo list to experiment with this stuff for
a long time, but I just never seem to get that far down the list. If you
do find some configurations which help make the PDFs more accessible, I
would be happy to try adding them to my setup for further testing. We
may find some additional packages which improve the situation and don't
have unacceptable impact on general org performance and stability. I'm
confident that if we can demonstrate this, having these additions added
to org-mode defaults would be possible.
Tim
Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> writes:
> Okay, orgmode pdf files will be inaccessible for the foreseeable future.
> Has anyone had any luck extracting text however mangled from one of
> these with pdftotext or similar tools? If that's not possible that will
> be another good thing to know.
>
> On Sat, 31 Aug 2019, Tim Cross wrote:
>
>> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 19:31:32
>> From: Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
>> To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> Cc: Nick Dokos <ndokos@gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [O] minimal testing setup for pdf export?
>>
>>
>> I think the main thing which needs to be in the PDF is structure
>> 'tagging'. Unfortunately, making truly accessible PDFs is the one area
>> I've found where the 'TeX suite is weak. I was tracking some discussions
>> about this on the various TeX and Latex lists and it seems that to add
>> the necessary information needed to create accessible PDFs requires a
>> major redesign of TeX internals.
>>
>> It has been a while since I looked at this, but I do believe there are
>> some add-on latex packages which can help a bit, but creating PDFs which
>> meet minimal accessibility requirement tests is currently not possible.
>>
>> IIRC the speech-disabling feature is not part of the PDF spec. This is
>> somethinhg added by Adobe (along with other DRM support). This is no
>> 'switch' so to speak in plain PDF documents as the PDF spec predates
>> considerations like TTS or even accessibility.
>>
>>
>> Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> writes:
>>
>> > most of the books sold on google play books are speech-disabled by
>> > publishers. The adobe accessibility site has speech-enabled
>> > accessibility examples. I think it's a matter of a single control that
>> > is either enabled or disabled. Oh, the IRS has speech-enabled pdf tax
>> > forms anyone can download. I nearly forgot about that one. The 1099R
>> > form is a short one so it ought to be pretty quick to find the setting
>> > in one of those forms.
>> >
>> > On Fri, 30 Aug 2019, Nick Dokos wrote:
>> >
>> >> Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2019 16:07:49
>> >> From: Nick Dokos <ndokos@gmail.com>
>> >> To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
>> >> Subject: Re: [O] minimal testing setup for pdf export?
>> >>
>> >> Jude DaShiell <jdashiel@panix.com> writes:
>> >>
>> >> > It would be helpful if when pdf get exported from orgmode they have
>> >> > speech enabled by default.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Not sure that org mode can do anything about, since it's LaTeX that produces
>> >> the PDF. That said, I'm not sure what needs to be done: what's the difference
>> >> between a speech-enabled PDF and a non-speech-enabled one?
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
--
Tim Cross
^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 19+ messages in thread
end of thread, other threads:[~2019-08-31 1:46 UTC | newest]
Thread overview: 19+ messages (download: mbox.gz / follow: Atom feed)
-- links below jump to the message on this page --
2019-08-27 1:20 minimal testing setup for pdf export? Matt Price
2019-08-27 3:26 ` Ken Mankoff
2019-08-27 6:14 ` Robert Klein
2019-08-27 10:34 ` Matt Price
2019-08-27 11:55 ` Julius Dittmar
2019-08-27 12:26 ` John Kitchin
2019-08-27 12:57 ` Matt Price
2019-08-27 17:32 ` John Kitchin
2019-08-27 23:33 ` Matt Price
2019-08-28 8:29 ` Julius Dittmar
2019-08-29 15:27 ` John Hendy
2019-08-30 14:13 ` Matt Price
2019-08-30 14:45 ` John Hendy
2019-08-30 18:11 ` Jude DaShiell
2019-08-30 20:07 ` Nick Dokos
2019-08-30 21:10 ` Jude DaShiell
2019-08-30 23:31 ` Tim Cross
2019-08-30 23:59 ` Jude DaShiell
2019-08-31 1:46 ` Tim Cross
Code repositories for project(s) associated with this public inbox
https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs/org-mode.git
This is a public inbox, see mirroring instructions
for how to clone and mirror all data and code used for this inbox;
as well as URLs for read-only IMAP folder(s) and NNTP newsgroup(s).