From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp11.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id GDhgGMecmWOihQEAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 10:52:07 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp11.migadu.com with LMTPS id 0JBoGMecmWPjCAAA9RJhRA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 10:52:07 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C9A9F05B for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 10:52:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5OPx-00085X-40; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 04:51:13 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5OPv-00084l-Kc for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 04:51:11 -0500 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1p5OPt-0004ka-DB for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 04:51:11 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3826C24002A for ; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 10:51:07 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1671011467; bh=eEar9lDI0ZzeC6utT+dwqfh4waCDbrC7DEv3rFOuqb8=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=Xqr3HVQ05bXSFBE8mfpffwk4LfjqdSDfxSHixpNmk/EULDJNwDooB9ClsoWi3xq/z f5uXGs4GUiJtxAsOHHiu2bp4/qi2vBLY5dkEsF/sGUuvvMojTnu0uMx3FDgMAVIt1c uNsnVU6brjZhZs667ypsJtfnfw28LZJlIdsxl59tcjPdfjp/9AWX4mVfCfpsFpYq3Z g8othtDAuwQdBzy8WPqcckMGXU7EtcktgmaXPggOZPA1NNwrXmaqk1SMjBb6Dq2Oa4 N3iMzP4t3b+Hmtcy93nOOymPaEA/d9i/ZacCmeixARptHeicKGG+a4IH1uOgwWKKUF HlDyH/ewaG72g== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4NX9bs6c41z6tnl; Wed, 14 Dec 2022 10:51:03 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Eli Zaretskii Cc: David Masterson , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org, michel@schi.nz, 59882@debbugs.gnu.org Subject: Re: bug#59882: Multiple versions of Org in load-path problem In-Reply-To: <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> References: <87tu27jq7h.fsf@localhost> <87k032nyok.fsf@localhost> <39a5810d-75bc-4ddb-8722-703f762ed4de@app.fastmail.com> <835yel11x8.fsf@gnu.org> Date: Wed, 14 Dec 2022 09:51:01 +0000 Message-ID: <87edt2qpoa.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1671011527; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=lf7+oG8lDO2oJWNg2IAr2dliDbG/wgpivvrOX7o/F3M=; b=r4nVi3Wf1cL+QBolG1i7VBW16b1xeVmG31NikbeAX7hIUw9JhwRpxp4dYNG2zCTcToXdPJ GfGkws/7AGlyg8djXHUAg9k+x2wY/2NJ7QoaytqErDz2CD8T8tWYQumcc0xi4AcM05VthU SM0vJyfSfQ8kZS61gHM6X308yMeADgmly9XFOdib8p5c33Zqy6l3kdnIV8njJXTcbiKBfL PU7NQrc0cYwgTJP/DLNO8+0eueUPBx1Cb2yKRq1VvTjncG0P70+X9zqfYHvxKDcgCSJoxp aMtejnJ5EOLYleN64lLaFbm8UBqx1LuYem/uINwAhZOmSgVireXaLwQFVPzbmw== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=Xqr3HVQ0; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1671011527; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=mw2bgzlUULDzScZ94JgkjQM7TkVdQMwmCpn/HIbswxe+DzksuIzLt+Jzo+r3h8fD54pC9T vS2owoq1S5zYfnMAdImV0bWzvFokVEGN01sPrXJQ6GAYNtuahkarLnDn2LfXhnud9Y9W7I JNemTYAdLltzz/bHRbUecEDStBxRbESnHmf02oiWGmY9Upq1qO/Cz0BJhRx1m9ZupklrNL /yKTWuTFzVIt/d0eo4h9J4bpTbkswd9cxmmEsT8VpsjTYBAs3e7uslPuc8XmGyDeQQwZdK 1cVQPgnP/a+lL/8GJ8kv16W/IKAwjJs1qInBnJn7JcJjp8w8rBrQ4wxjY3Ju+g== X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.37 X-Spam-Score: -4.37 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 0C9A9F05B X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=Xqr3HVQ0; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net X-TUID: 4ALD0KxHWZt0 Eli Zaretskii writes: >> So, 'describe-variable' on org-version causes Org to be loaded?!? > > Why is it so surprising? Is this the first time you see that a Help > command loads something to do its job? On a related note, is it normal that package like org-mouse.el gets loaded upon calling C-h f org-mouse- completion prompt? org-mouse.el does not contain a single autoload cookie. I am asking because org-mouse.el advises some functions and its loading may cause unexpected consequences. See https://orgmode.org/list/87r0x6sju1.fsf@fastmail.fm At the same time, we have users complaining about some defcustoms not being available without loading. https://orgmode.org/list/25496.19258.682537.503614@gargle.gargle.HOWL I feel confused about the situation. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at