From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Richard Lawrence Subject: Re: Multicite syntax Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2015 09:13:41 -0700 Message-ID: <87bnjq707e.fsf@berkeley.edu> References: <54FBEC42.2060507@gmail.com> <8761ab5u8j.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <8761a37duj.fsf@berkeley.edu> <87ioe32pcq.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87oanr1slm.fsf@berkeley.edu> <87a8zb2y56.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53961) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YYGc0-0000U6-31 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 12:14:32 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YYGbw-0004rs-1U for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 12:14:28 -0400 Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:40984) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1YYGbv-0004qx-Qg for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 12:14:23 -0400 Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1YYGbs-0000jg-K2 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 17:14:20 +0100 Received: from c-67-169-117-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([67.169.117.151]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 17:14:20 +0100 Received: from richard.lawrence by c-67-169-117-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Wed, 18 Mar 2015 17:14:20 +0100 List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Nicolas Goaziou writes: >> I ask because in that kind of context, I think it is generally going to >> be more useful to deal with citation objects as a whole. I am not sure >> we will want to treat citation-references as individual objects which >> are themselves exported; instead, I think we will want to handle >> exporting the citation-references in a citation all at once. > > I don't know. In any case, they need to be treated as regular object > (e.g., they are expected to have a filter associated to them). Hmm. I can see that making sense if the filter manipulates the citation-reference object itself, but I can't see it making sense if the idea is that the exporter transcodes citation-references individually, and the filter manipulates the transcoded string. For example, suppose LaTeX export works by mapping a citation object to a biblatex command, and consider this citation: [cite: See @Doe99 ch. 1; @Doe2000 p. 10] This should be transcoded in the final output to something like: \textcite[See][ch. 1]{Doe99}[][p. 10]{Doe2000} in which case the transcoded string corresponding to the first citation-reference object is "[See][ch. 1]{Doe99}". It's hard for me to see how you could do anything useful with just this string, and it might even be dangerous to manipulate it, since it is only part of a complete command, which you might mess up by modifying the string. In other backends, there might not even be a syntactically-identifiable chunk of the output citation which corresponds to a given citation-reference. (I'm having trouble thinking of a good example at the moment, but I'm thinking of cases where e.g. CSL processing turns a reference into "Ibid.", or some other output that only has meaning relative to its place in the document and doesn't correspond in a context-free way to the citation-reference object.) But like I said, it makes more sense if the filter can manipulate the citation-reference object itself, e.g. by setting additional properties or modifying the prefix and suffix strings *before* the object is transcoded as part of a citation. > If some back-end doesn't need to export directly citation references, it > just needs to skip the relative translator. Sure. I guess I'm just having a hard time seeing why a backend would ever need/want to translate citation-references individually, rather than generating a complete citation all at once. That seems to be the way to do it in both the LaTeX and CSL worlds, anyway. Best, Richard