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List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1637982047; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Wtbfih6hZmouYsbw6ae1XmWrNr8zNvGxKPdkhkcvMZg=; b=i4KpHuIdfDfNmOU54wYBcvdGAsp4o5OsIk1jDS9iZG9aNQ236m2gKyrAmDf66C123ThIFr LIZF5Qa8jks+WSZNKfty6jZJ4LMmPJAUPxOBBxNGI9REF8PTr6/WnIv9BDu5zVkfWfBCzL vHbCoHs24N5pKs92Uuexlb7H/gcX1WXLSg/QzjfrsP3ZmRaqq+PoTYMTzLwOFkdTPcapb6 G6j5UkRuT3nnKbrAy4YryEfesTN3Pl5Rugjx0jWQiBbBjrP7P62SgzuEI2aXnTHeRfiqhk Wj1bZ3+HZ/DW4f/Azn0WvEVP0JNlxqe+7GRpf/eAIBK+haajk9G7FP7yIYemlw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1637982047; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=YePpXsNy3y5k/PZk4Hnsa3CgKJJgCckK793UFkv6ilrPiyEuMvhnzCscBjUTCyOmq42zKC X85ADrsKy7wn7rrOuPha4NCAgrFuzDR5dXhV/3bfwmHaqv6PFXHmPkLGyXgYgm+lDT9YKw 4KkCpknY6sB6u4udeUCqfYZ6TcNX23BDU+FUwwPpZDTDKbyJMMvJ91qMYkLJPHs8BqJQAv lWfJ7derqDJbB//2RcFKUsXd12S9DfpglULoBvQRALJNnrAapOEOZ1LoLqroPdzIHZ+2Nl HAKE4EafwI+IOmfQdEam/rsQTC5QbjqRysB/uLQgnDzsSjyPJql5rkwzzBFZ4Q== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=ki21WrHh; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.60 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=ki21WrHh; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 041872D608 X-Spam-Score: -3.60 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: qSTIS10TSPZL Matt Micheletti writes: >> Why do you think that Org mode permits changing the planning keywords? > Why do you believe my or anyone else's nomenclature would be wrong? What > makes Org Mode right and others' terms wrong? I am assuming you're being > genuine with your reply but it comes off as if "Org mode and its authors > know better than its users" when this is in stark violation of how free > software works. I am sorry that my reply sounded harsh. That was not my intention. I do not claim that Org devs know better. However, supporting extra functionality is an extra burden for maintainers. AFAIK, we are not trying to ensure that Org supports grammar modifications in this particular area of planning keyword names. So, you are free to modify that keywords (you can do it in Emacs even if they are declared defconst), but we give no guarantees that your customisation is going to work reliably now or in future. > Org Mode's terminology is not correct for me and I am sure > dozens of others (see the very issue around "SCHEDULED" in and of itself > requiring auxiliary notes/documentation explaining that "SCHEDULED" doesn't > mean "scheduled" but something completely different). Users should never > feel that the programs run them but rather that they run the program. > Nobody wants to use software that forces them to use wrong or incorrect > terminology for different nomenclatures. > ... There's no > reason to arbitrarily dictate to users "You _MUST_ use _these terms_ and > not any other" other than trying to restrict a user's freedom to have the > software work for them or limiting their ability to change it to meet their > needs. I do sympathise with your sentiment. However, note that we also need to maintain back-compatibility and compatibility with third-party tools on Org side. Part of this effort is making the grammar more consistent (and less flexible though). If you really think that the current grammar should be changed, feel free to open a separate discussion in the list with more accurate subject. > ... If I have to manually fork off Org Mode to fix something then I > will, but if a simple variable like `org-scheduled-string` or > `org-deadline-string` could be implemented and used to provide a user > centric experience that suits how _users_ need their software to work for > them then that is clearly so much better. Perhaps the Org Mode team should > consider this when making changes like removing UI/UX functionality. If Org > Mode did not have the ability to change things like what "TODO" keywords > people used or what phraseology they want for dates and times then it would > not be nearly as powerful as it is. As I mentioned in my last reply, someone is already working on getting rid of "magic" constants. We are currently in the process of abstracting the grammar using Org parser. So, the particular issue you pointed will be eventually (not soon though) be fixed as a part of the effort. However, we give no guarantees that the functionality you desire (customising the keywords) will be supported in future. Most likely, it will, but we are not going to spend extra efforts to maintain it (unless we decide change the current grammar specs). Note that many third-party Elisp packages will be broken if you change the planning keywords. Of course, all of this is open to further discussion. I am expressing my opinion and my understanding of the views that other maintainers expressed in the past. Also, if you want to fix the particular problem at hand, feel free to send a patch. Removing hard-coded constant will be an improvement compared to current state of code. Just keep in mind what I said above. Best, Ihor