From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Nicolas Goaziou Subject: Re: [patch] extend org-meta-return to keywords Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 22:13:02 +0100 Message-ID: <878uj139k1.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> References: <87egszw8ui.fsf@gmx.us> <87wq6o3u57.fsf@gmx.us> <87fvdb4l6c.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87sihb4ede.fsf@pank.eu> <87lhn36nq1.fsf@gmx.us> <87bnny4ybq.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <5471C038.4080102@free.fr> <873899503j.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <8738997sa2.fsf@gmx.us> <87ppcd3iqj.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> <87vbm56b2q.fsf@gmx.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:53159) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XseSA-00033i-1O for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:12:26 -0500 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XseS1-0001Ry-Tj for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:12:17 -0500 Received: from relay4-d.mail.gandi.net ([2001:4b98:c:538::196]:37279) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1XseS1-0001Rq-NJ for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sun, 23 Nov 2014 16:12:09 -0500 In-Reply-To: <87vbm56b2q.fsf@gmx.us> (rasmus@gmx.us's message of "Sun, 23 Nov 2014 19:11:57 +0100") List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: Rasmus Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Rasmus writes: > "Newcomers" ain't stupid. I never said that. However, here is an historical data point. SCHEDULED, DEADLINE and CLOSED keywords, aka planning info, are not included as properties in properties drawer so newcomers do not encounter invisible contents for such basic tasks. This is the same logic here. > My guess is it would feel very intuitive to be able to repeat e.g. > LATEX_HEADINGs. M-RET is a good fit for almost anything. That's all the problem. As far as UI goes, I think we should prevent some keybindings from being context sensitive. This is particularly true for those related to core features (outliner, agenda, TODO list). Why ? Because basic Org features should ideally be very simple to use. Org is mostly geared towards "power users". The feature you're implementing is also for "power users". However, /any/ user should be able to master the core features in 5 minutes. > But "* #+LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage{foo}" or whatever is possibly the > most useless headline in the history of Org. . . Who knows? It depends on the context, on the next commands (e.g. C-o)... Hitting "B" key at #+|LATEX_HEADER: \usepackage{foo} is as useless. Nevertheless, I suppose you don't want to bind "B" key to something else than `org-self-insert-command' here. > Still, I think overload M-RET is more intuitive, "Intuitiveness" is in the eye of the beholder... Maybe some users will not find intuitive that M-RET usually inserts a headline... unless it is in a plain list, in which case it inserts an item... oh wait, if it is at a keyword it can duplicate it... but, wait, it doesn't happen for every keyword... ah! and in source blocks it... > but I fear our opinions will fail to converge. If you want to convince me, show me that this binding makes Org simpler to use, or, at least, equally simple. Until then, I stand on my ground. Regards,