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From: Richard Lawrence <richard.lawrence@berkeley.edu>
To: Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk>
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: org-cite and org-citeproc
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 2015 12:13:17 -0700	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <878uedgeuq.fsf@berkeley.edu> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <871tk560p3.fsf@delle7240.chemeng.ucl.ac.uk>

Hi Eric and all,

Eric S Fraga <e.fraga@ucl.ac.uk> writes:

> On Saturday, 28 Mar 2015 at 10:53, Richard Lawrence wrote:

>> I thought I should send an update to let you know that org-citeproc [1],
>> the command-line citation processing tool I've been working on, now
>> supports multi-cites.  I believe that means it is now capable of
>> processing all citations in the basic citation syntax.  It can output
>> plain text, HTML, and ODT (and a Pandoc native format, mostly useful for
>> debugging).
> This looks really good!  Thanks.


> However, for some reason, libreoffice doesn't display the citations in
> the ODT document you have included.  I have had a look at the actual ODT
> file and it looks fine.  Can you suggest what may be wrong?  

Hmm, you're right.  I don't have LibreOffice on the machine where I am
working on org-citeproc, but I tested it on another machine (OS X,
LibreOffice version I think), and the citation text is indeed

As you say, the actual file looks fine to me, and it displays correctly
on Google Drive (which is where I originally tested the output).

So LibreOffice might be where the problem is.  That doesn't mean there
isn't a problem with org-citeproc, or the ODT exporter, but given that
the file looks fine and another viewer handles it correctly, LibreOffice
would be my first suspect.

I don't really know anything about the ODT format, though.  My code
more-or-less blindly pastes Pandoc-generated XML into the document
during Org ODT export.  Can someone who knows more about the format take
a look at the file and see if there is some subtle problem I'm not

> A second question: what will be required to use the new cite syntax with
> LaTeX/PDF which will remain my main target for export?

I think this needs more discussion, actually.

The citation syntax can basically be mapped directly to BibLaTeX syntax,
so generating LaTeX that will be processed with BibLaTeX is a simple and
straightforward modification to Org's LaTeX exporter, and compiling the
exported document should continue to require no external programs except
the LaTeX distribution itself.  That is, `C-c C-e l whatever' should
continue to be all that is needed from a user's perspective, plus or
minus some LATEX_HEADER setup.

However, there are a couple of other scenarios to think about:

1) Some people may still need to use plain BibTeX.  Generating LaTeX
that is intended to be processed with BibTeX, as opposed to BibLaTeX, is
a little trickier, because (IIUC) BibTeX does not support multi-cite
citations.  Also, I don't know how easy it would be to capture the other
features of citations (e.g., the in-text vs. parenthetical distinction)
without relying on a package like natbib.  If generating
BibTeX-compatible LaTeX is needed, is it OK to rely on such a package?

2) Some people might find it useful *not* to generate LaTeX citation
commands, and instead have a tool like org-citeproc process citations
instead, with the exporter inserting the rendered output into the
document.  This could be useful if e.g. you are preparing to submit to a
journal that provides a CSL file, but not a BibTeX or BibLaTeX style.

If either of these scenarios represents an important use case, it will
be more work to implement.  

I suggest that for now we just target BibLaTeX, but I'd like to hear
from other people about whether there's reason to do more than that.

  reply	other threads:[~2015-03-31 19:13 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 27+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2015-03-28 18:53 Richard Lawrence
2015-03-31  8:16 ` Eric S Fraga
2015-03-31 19:13   ` Richard Lawrence [this message]
2015-03-31 19:34     ` Nick Dokos
2015-03-31 20:29       ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-31 21:57         ` Richard Lawrence
2015-04-01  0:41           ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-04-01 15:42             ` Richard Lawrence
2015-04-01 19:41               ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-04-02 15:57                 ` Richard Lawrence
2015-04-02 16:45                   ` Thomas S. Dye
2015-03-31 21:12     ` Eric S Fraga
2015-04-01  7:49       ` Andreas Leha
2015-04-02 14:29         ` Eric S Fraga
2015-04-02 15:11           ` Richard Lawrence
2015-04-02 19:26             ` Andreas Leha
2015-03-31 22:03     ` Rasmus
2015-04-01 14:39       ` Richard Lawrence
2015-04-02  0:08         ` Rasmus
2015-04-02 15:26           ` Richard Lawrence
2015-04-02 15:51 ` Aaron Ecay
2015-04-02 17:38   ` Richard Lawrence
2015-04-06 18:51     ` Richard Lawrence
2015-06-16 19:36       ` Matt Price
2015-06-18 22:44         ` Richard Lawrence
2015-04-02 19:17   ` Rasmus
2015-04-03  2:56     ` Richard Lawrence

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