From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp2 ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id YLOmE6KmrWEu3AAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 06 Dec 2021 06:58:58 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp2 with LMTPS id +LxeD6KmrWHVJQAAB5/wlQ (envelope-from ) for ; Mon, 06 Dec 2021 05:58:58 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AD1B42344D for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2021 06:58:57 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1]:58600 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mu71c-0002Pq-LL for larch@yhetil.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2021 00:58:56 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([209.51.188.92]:42594) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mu70d-0002Oz-9v for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2021 00:57:55 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]:34815) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mu70W-0001ch-6m for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2021 00:57:50 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0A0AA240104 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2021 06:57:45 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1638770266; bh=5T9hWS0zvILgo+chtrXtlALnJ8gcTAwvBnCDbdRlI/Q=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=ra/LrwjCP4V/oaq+jHjwgAH5hQLLztLOgAWTkr8I27RTlLI7L6ZgVby5C113Vmeii RiWbKPq5Hy6ad3NKgfkbKEcOkiaA0V9DN884tsrFBEt/KvtuznfvRaG/3NJfcEKoBx IL500FnQL7mbT1l99Xa0lOj7hv8uGwbpbqwotvND8lmt1lXI18baQ58HWdKeq5Vg6O xNCzFVoIYZONoHz/+55JU9+KmDafAGQsEaeXFqbPh1phq7A9ECC+lTIi1/lA8Q88Hu c/DM5ZIRFasWXrJtfxp87E76ICK9nFugcEiWa6XHMReisVANciJq7RO3USjIhIJycg UEYVqVu3LzpeA== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4J6t4n26dxz9rxN; Mon, 6 Dec 2021 06:57:44 +0100 (CET) From: =?utf-8?Q?Juan_Manuel_Mac=C3=ADas?= To: Russell Adams Subject: Re: Concrete suggestions to improve Org mode third-party integration :: an afterthought following Karl Voit's Orgdown proposal References: <87tufnbj1w.fsf@localhost> <87sfv75s4r.fsf@posteo.net> <87o85vbb9a.fsf@localhost> <87y24zs40r.fsf@posteo.net> <87lf0zb6fq.fsf@localhost> <87pmqasws7.fsf@posteo.net> Date: Mon, 06 Dec 2021 05:57:42 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Russell Adams's message of "Mon, 6 Dec 2021 00:24:51 +0100") Message-ID: <878rwyi8bt.fsf@posteo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=maciaschain@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: orgmode Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1638770338; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=DBDyIoGS8gmoSp1J5obYb31K4/9pJzGXugDh1ZWazes=; b=LpCZOFVGxctuFTeWkOLtKQ+ygaMSbcBI+JuXs3dM8zrefJex9GQbuRo0gR/+DKY11qFU09 UI6CemA1oLPbpLJWWNBx1L931x/NijPYIDMilQrBr0COpHND1Y5fbvJDZN3+o+J5a9Jz4E 0+2n97BiZOvUhi6/HZtzQ1fxrkYYZmXykCF2peyytLgWyNIgYJed2N/4YSwkD4AXsT40RY tfO3Zs/OxbbNk1H51IahG2C3Dx/D8v3tOWCVDf9IRdZ2Dh/kEBY2k+XuKJQ8HCGyPbtcFJ x9i1fvPWtJf7B/Jd3VT+Lv/LOXqHbgMkPQ+uFK1CA76cX4ZE/fI/++jilnsVvg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1638770338; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=jwRQhYvGRmHvrBWiLOxhLaphcgk7/23JfOt6y6qHKrO+BoaSezy4rolxFPsuOqSMe0VEmX 7/57jn02dG8IOgixXKW+zc9h8KgO5fsvTdFZGxb1+uOs0PDTEgWrkgacTNe9WrmvnptXfP wPNy8TX0C1f5cJ31EGVej5aLPieF5+ryDQPMxFuR/SmyKI0vgDSb8ZhsOSq2KMMHAtAw4q FdOcuK5ypv3gVloJTsY90cqhEfpP6yrp5/UoXYPX4k1nxcv+4AH5P4LZZn+oU5wTDXghOn NvA1HUjGqtnC4bQuyXzl4lJZpmf/mOO7QQSNFt7ZznOcXygrIp57QE7ePe9JfA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b="ra/LrwjC"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -4.34 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b="ra/LrwjC"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: AD1B42344D X-Spam-Score: -4.34 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: 8RZWRFEnW4qX Russell Adams writes: > What makes Org dramatically different is the editing experience in > Emacs. Collapsing the outline, filtering on metadata, exports, agenda, > etc. Those are Emacs features, not specific to the actual markup > format. > > My impression is we already have stretched our resources thin trying > to maintain Org. Pushing to provide compatibility with non-Emacs tools > seems a poor use of their time, and rude to ask of them. > > If non-Emacs users and coders want to use Org formatted files, they > are free to spend their time customizing their tools to make it > work. If the Org project owes anything to anyone, it's a consistent > experience for the users who have used Org for years. Not changes to > satisfy potential users or follow trendy fads. > > My experience has been that Org's markup is so simple and could be > summarized in a few lines. Anything more complex enters the territory > of Emacs only features (ie: drawers. exports, view control, source > blocks, reporting). Those are unlikely to be portable, so we're back > to "use Emacs". I think that I cannot agree more with this. Org Mode is GNU Emacs, and the magic of Org Mode is the magic of GNU Emacs. That's why I insist that going to Org means going to Emacs. Best regards, Juan Manuel