From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" <arne_bab@web.de>
To: Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Concrete suggestions to improve Org mode third-party integration :: an afterthought following Karl Voit's Orgdown proposal
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2021 09:12:30 +0100 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <878rwuuqw1.fsf@web.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87lf0uu4mj.fsf@gmail.com>
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Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:
> Russell Adams <RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.Com> writes:
>> That Org can also be used to export to other formats is both a
>> blessing and a curse. Org can only do high level constructs in the
>> languages it exports to, and really should only be expected to do just
>> that. It's a paper thin macro or template over a much more complicated
>> document language.
…
>> The exporting is the difference in expectations. Org's lightweight
>> markup is quite simple, and the documents it produces should be as
>> well. This is much like the original HTML specification. Look how
>> complicated it is to write HTML now with CSS and Javascript emulating
>> mundane functions after decades of bolt on "standards".
Yes, the language-specific hacks are outside its scope. When I do
#+latex: …
or
@@html:…@@
I am in the export formats.
What should not happen is that
>>> Please do not make org-mode volatile.¹
>> …
>> I think our maintainers have done an excellent job of minimizing the
>> impact of any changes.
Yes, they have. That’s why I wrote that it is a too rarely highlighted
strength, that Emacs is stable.
>> However I only export Org to be backwardly compatible with itself, not
>> the languages it makes exports to.
One of the big strengths of org-mode is in its integrations. When the
languages change that it exports to, it cannot do much. But where they
don’t, an update of org-mode should not break the export.
From the expectations-side, that’s the extended 80/20 rule: 80% of your
users only use 20% of the features¹, but they don’t all use the same
20%. So everytime you break something that’s not in the core 20%, you
lose some users until only a small core is left that actually did not
use anything outside those 20%.
¹: for org-mode it migh rather be 5% :-)
> As you point out, the big benefit of org mode is that the files are
> plain text. This means you will always be able to 'fix' any issues which
> arise from change. It might not be convenient and you may be frustrated
> by such change, but you will likely have a much better outcome than you
> would with any other document formatting system which is not based on
> plain text.
Yes — that’s also one of the reasons why I’m using org-mode.
It’s awesome integrations and tooling are why I use org-mode instead of
markdown or asciidoc or similar. It binds all my work in Emacs together.
Best wishes,
Arne
--
Unpolitisch sein
heißt politisch sein,
ohne es zu merken.
draketo.de
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next prev parent reply other threads:[~2021-12-09 8:26 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 59+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2021-12-05 7:35 Concrete suggestions to improve Org mode third-party integration :: an afterthought following Karl Voit's Orgdown proposal Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-05 9:16 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-05 10:24 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-05 11:08 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-05 11:54 ` Heinz Tuechler
2021-12-05 12:08 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-05 13:32 ` Tim Cross
2021-12-05 13:52 ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-12-05 22:20 ` Tim Cross
2021-12-05 14:30 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-05 22:39 ` Tim Cross
2021-12-08 13:47 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-08 14:39 ` Tim Cross
2021-12-08 16:16 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2021-12-08 17:07 ` Russell Adams
2021-12-08 19:22 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2021-12-08 20:14 ` Russell Adams
2021-12-08 21:50 ` Tim Cross
2021-12-09 8:12 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide [this message]
2021-12-08 21:25 ` Tim Cross
2021-12-09 8:07 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2021-12-09 8:36 ` Timothy
2021-12-09 9:18 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-09 10:46 ` Eric S Fraga
2021-12-09 15:21 ` Russell Adams
2021-12-09 16:25 ` Eric S Fraga
2021-12-09 21:15 ` Samuel Wales
2021-12-09 23:27 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2021-12-10 2:42 ` Tim Cross
2021-12-10 6:08 ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2021-12-11 10:03 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-11 21:19 ` Tim Cross
2021-12-06 19:41 ` Karl Voit
2021-12-05 18:59 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-05 23:24 ` Russell Adams
2021-12-06 5:57 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-06 6:02 ` Timothy
2021-12-06 7:24 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-06 10:04 ` Greg Minshall
2021-12-06 14:59 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-06 17:59 ` Tom Gillespie
2021-12-06 18:25 ` M. ‘quintus’ Gülker
2021-12-06 18:42 ` Russell Adams
2021-12-06 18:47 ` Timothy
2021-12-06 19:28 ` Russell Adams
2021-12-06 19:34 ` Timothy
2021-12-06 18:30 ` Russell Adams
2021-12-06 19:10 ` Gerry Agbobada
2021-12-08 12:56 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-06 10:08 ` Greg Minshall
2021-12-06 19:45 ` Karl Voit
2021-12-07 11:08 ` Vincent Breton
2021-12-08 13:13 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-08 13:30 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-05 13:06 ` Tim Cross
2021-12-05 14:55 ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-05 18:54 ` Timothy
2021-12-06 11:08 ` Max Nikulin
2021-12-06 18:43 ` Russell Adams
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