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From: "Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide" <arne_bab@web.de>
To: Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com>
Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Concrete suggestions to improve Org mode third-party integration :: an afterthought following Karl Voit's Orgdown proposal
Date: Thu, 09 Dec 2021 09:12:30 +0100	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <878rwuuqw1.fsf@web.de> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87lf0uu4mj.fsf@gmail.com>

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Tim Cross <theophilusx@gmail.com> writes:



> Russell Adams <RLAdams@AdamsInfoServ.Com> writes:
>> That Org can also be used to export to other formats is both a
>> blessing and a curse. Org can only do high level constructs in the
>> languages it exports to, and really should only be expected to do just
>> that. It's a paper thin macro or template over a much more complicated
>> document language.
>> The exporting is the difference in expectations. Org's lightweight
>> markup is quite simple, and the documents it produces should be as
>> well. This is much like the original HTML specification. Look how
>> complicated it is to write HTML now with CSS and Javascript emulating
>> mundane functions after decades of bolt on "standards".


Yes, the language-specific hacks are outside its scope. When I do
#+latex: …
or
@@html:…@@

I am in the export formats.

What should not happen is that 

>>> Please do not make org-mode volatile.¹
>> …
>> I think our maintainers have done an excellent job of minimizing the
>> impact of any changes.

Yes, they have. That’s why I wrote that it is a too rarely highlighted
strength, that Emacs is stable.

>> However I only export Org to be backwardly compatible with itself, not
>> the languages it makes exports to.

One of the big strengths of org-mode is in its integrations. When the
languages change that it exports to, it cannot do much. But where they
don’t, an update of org-mode should not break the export.

From the expectations-side, that’s the extended 80/20 rule: 80% of your
users only use 20% of the features¹, but they don’t all use the same
20%. So everytime you break something that’s not in the core 20%, you
lose some users until only a small core is left that actually did not
use anything outside those 20%.

¹: for org-mode it migh rather be 5% :-)

> As you point out, the big benefit of org mode is that the files are
> plain text. This means you will always be able to 'fix' any issues which
> arise from change. It might not be convenient and you may be frustrated
> by such change, but you will likely have a much better outcome than you
> would with any other document formatting system which is not based on
> plain text. 

Yes — that’s also one of the reasons why I’m using org-mode.

It’s awesome integrations and tooling are why I use org-mode instead of
markdown or asciidoc or similar. It binds all my work in Emacs together.

Best wishes,
Arne
-- 
Unpolitisch sein
heißt politisch sein,
ohne es zu merken.
draketo.de

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  reply	other threads:[~2021-12-09  8:26 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 59+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2021-12-05  7:35 Concrete suggestions to improve Org mode third-party integration :: an afterthought following Karl Voit's Orgdown proposal Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-05  9:16 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-05 10:24   ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-05 11:08     ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-05 11:54       ` Heinz Tuechler
2021-12-05 12:08       ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-05 13:32         ` Tim Cross
2021-12-05 13:52           ` Bruce D'Arcus
2021-12-05 22:20             ` Tim Cross
2021-12-05 14:30           ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-05 22:39             ` Tim Cross
2021-12-08 13:47               ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-08 14:39                 ` Tim Cross
2021-12-08 16:16                   ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2021-12-08 17:07                     ` Russell Adams
2021-12-08 19:22                       ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2021-12-08 20:14                         ` Russell Adams
2021-12-08 21:50                           ` Tim Cross
2021-12-09  8:12                             ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide [this message]
2021-12-08 21:25                         ` Tim Cross
2021-12-09  8:07                           ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2021-12-09  8:36                             ` Timothy
2021-12-09  9:18                               ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-09 10:46                     ` Eric S Fraga
2021-12-09 15:21                       ` Russell Adams
2021-12-09 16:25                         ` Eric S Fraga
2021-12-09 21:15                           ` Samuel Wales
2021-12-09 23:27                         ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2021-12-10  2:42                           ` Tim Cross
2021-12-10  6:08                             ` Dr. Arne Babenhauserheide
2021-12-11 10:03                   ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-11 21:19                     ` Tim Cross
2021-12-06 19:41             ` Karl Voit
2021-12-05 18:59         ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-05 23:24           ` Russell Adams
2021-12-06  5:57             ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-06  6:02               ` Timothy
2021-12-06  7:24                 ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-06 10:04                   ` Greg Minshall
2021-12-06 14:59                     ` Juan Manuel Macías
2021-12-06 17:59                       ` Tom Gillespie
2021-12-06 18:25                         ` M. ‘quintus’ Gülker
2021-12-06 18:42                           ` Russell Adams
2021-12-06 18:47                             ` Timothy
2021-12-06 19:28                               ` Russell Adams
2021-12-06 19:34                                 ` Timothy
2021-12-06 18:30                         ` Russell Adams
2021-12-06 19:10                         ` Gerry Agbobada
2021-12-08 12:56                           ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-06 10:08         ` Greg Minshall
2021-12-06 19:45         ` Karl Voit
2021-12-07 11:08           ` Vincent Breton
2021-12-08 13:13             ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-08 13:30           ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-05 13:06   ` Tim Cross
2021-12-05 14:55     ` Ihor Radchenko
2021-12-05 18:54 ` Timothy
2021-12-06 11:08 ` Max Nikulin
2021-12-06 18:43 ` Russell Adams

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