From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id cLOoMw6j42JsggAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 29 Jul 2022 11:06:22 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id QCyxMg6j42J5GAAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Fri, 29 Jul 2022 11:06:22 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56E1724B88 for ; Fri, 29 Jul 2022 11:06:22 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:47142 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oHLwq-0002Hf-LC for larch@yhetil.org; Fri, 29 Jul 2022 05:06:20 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41898) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oHLvu-0002HW-7x for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Jul 2022 05:05:22 -0400 Received: from mail-pf1-x42c.google.com ([2607:f8b0:4864:20::42c]:46917) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_128_GCM_SHA256:128) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oHLvs-0003rx-Ar for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Fri, 29 Jul 2022 05:05:21 -0400 Received: by mail-pf1-x42c.google.com with SMTP id c3so4075768pfb.13 for ; Fri, 29 Jul 2022 02:05:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8WYihxPTvcWaR9GZ5nr9vfmYLCWiZIHYmJ5l500WCNU=; b=PBdrwui4eTORM8y4PgXYi8Ne8aNeHpcaS8A5VyptgY+piKb2Y+YofrFbExew824jA6 dteu/Y7x/4WG7QE2Jo5gAMa8+zJCFgbNewNU0HzS5qlMCrhxSd1sEIgVbtUY7xWBXGAi sH/FKaY/ZC9V/hezHs5j8hERKTivwdkUY7jJVU5phwpk3QKosVqXbvmWuYkGc58SFSnZ llnbZXHFosXC7pEaGzF6xgnJ/N+CpYu8Txi9+5cAsuKqE9f47C6BJ5PYKz2nVMjdLtfI yq168KgCHRfuUR5YsqUDNyVMIAW/NAdWO83hovIHCvZwZ0c9deyK01VEhhtkII3uGuZF UrFw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=8WYihxPTvcWaR9GZ5nr9vfmYLCWiZIHYmJ5l500WCNU=; b=BblEXLl4jjK6J/IKuFVSUAP0KSugiCObtX/Q3UCR/21aVV6xk6CsFXYAjY1JCRCQJn oQvD9PPYbufqI1H8/+dlaSXgH21gxpe3+zbcwcKiwh/vFQfWE+qfWnvE3igIQ42kNS1w J9D5h6T6fSAt+ehqo7K5AWTweLDtyGGUYutihY4m1wsLjUivJh2bbQeyk4lPMoZVk/Ca 1zE9nyUW+wSm3001POKhOZEq2BzPI2AFmkb2+5DNVKjBIeBSRj9BLJtaS2dgJgUTdeOj tA7+JKhFH8Di+sO/MlbRrt7xp046zeH9ivt6B8Ox8PtEQrWgQy6bq5SAUq8q+DMPxp2v rv7A== X-Gm-Message-State: AJIora9ghcvpl6LDR8UV7cqNp38Nh/jeGOkxuaMUIcdnLtxX9PJM67hv Lc5cCBMSqXZg4Zi07tAGPuw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGRyM1uRU3HOA63AZq2yi28a0WMf4/5Q6cFBd9lCnp2LMJIJA0SquCtVykVpzRCE69uoVp3s1XkPTw== X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a00:158e:b0:52a:e628:8b3b with SMTP id u14-20020a056a00158e00b0052ae6288b3bmr2856547pfk.80.1659085518318; Fri, 29 Jul 2022 02:05:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost ([115.154.175.57]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x18-20020aa79a52000000b005254e44b748sm2264458pfj.84.2022.07.29.02.05.16 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 29 Jul 2022 02:05:17 -0700 (PDT) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Max Nikulin Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: [PATCH v2] Add new entity \-- serving as markup separator/escape symbol In-Reply-To: References: <87r128d5pp.fsf@localhost> <80f0990042a564556cc6b047a94f7e9dddf5a280.camel@outlook.com> <87v8rkav2x.fsf@localhost> <87mtct9y1f.fsf@localhost> <87mtcsn173.fsf@localhost> Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 17:06:21 +0800 Message-ID: <878rocmgoi.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::42c; envelope-from=yantar92@gmail.com; helo=mail-pf1-x42c.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -18 X-Spam_score: -1.9 X-Spam_bar: - X-Spam_report: (-1.9 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1659085582; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type: content-transfer-encoding:content-transfer-encoding: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references:list-id:list-help: list-unsubscribe:list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=8WYihxPTvcWaR9GZ5nr9vfmYLCWiZIHYmJ5l500WCNU=; b=uO8TJenP9WUMWm4NltSnUBuuZ1M2KhNITAgM4ErHIL6u3EJ0i5F2Yy96WRadnKLu6k6lhK 1Y7liPogm3KfnDvyzXYJO6H70ZfZRdd8aMkxKrGRJIY1arDNM3UgLlG5cIr2VBYHIHMKeA nTjGefO17iDnzzjoc9xtWMYJ5jy6DrdZ3mRw9sc7uwEkWIIquesY7LILHpwp+ooRtKm5e3 MCK5wlmLDZsrH6cCAlvYOobFANUKGuFxc+lJEz2TCGkspdu9N166RwNKS41Exgh24ST3oB I2RERinncjEUWg5tS3Aj9d5d536DkYd/R/9n1FWTpKcdMUwXFIdIvsqpo30vzQ== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1659085582; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=OW08HOLnzzPQq/67yJsWfcURcXY36hNU8kgmZseOBwBthU/S/ZtZwioUa1y+luem5w40of XqqfcLQZOeuaZOIK0/uHj/KPhcCvefD+QM3kG3qNzo4PS44ATi6065jipAKUvIm+qQheuQ 1G+nDrHV9Bgx+1uUmmmlP5DvRyeQtS794IvuHbMP/4jnBIMUHOeGc2XP2Z54rmmuArZee7 qpVz41N1HRM6Nl+0wyNkv2Tt3eoFMobCWsMAVEFB9gyZs2j33aXroveVt0o9AVeLfH9ENj 8lfMyyWdT5MAu3Cpl/BCzC18Ng+pWv7kp6S8v/L1ChsHJS/ZOzI5TusqXhOaow== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=PBdrwui4; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.22 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=PBdrwui4; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 56E1724B88 X-Spam-Score: -3.22 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: HjLkTyKEDdqN Max Nikulin writes: >>> The good point in your patch is that \- is still work as shy hyphen >>> (that, by the way, may be used in some cases instead of zero width >>> space: *intra*\-word). On the other hand I have managed to find a case >>> when your approach is not ideal: >>> >>> *\--scratch\--* >>> >>>

>>> ­-scratch

>>=20 >> Well. I think that it is impossible to use the same escape construct to >> both force emphasis and escape it. > > Let's articulate the problem as follows: when some characters ("*". "/".= =20 > etc.) besides used literally are overloaded with 2 additional roles that= =20 > are start emphasis group and terminate emphasis group, in addition to=20 > lightweight markup heuristics, it is necessary to provide a way to=20 > disambiguate which of 3 roles is associated with particular character. > > "Activate" and "deactivate" characters or entities for emphasis markers=20 > are alternative and perhaps not so clear terms have used before. > > The advantage of zero width space is that "[:space:]" is part of=20 > PREMATCH and POSTMATCH (outer) regexps in=20 > `org-emphasis-regexp-components' and "[:space:]" is forbidden at the=20 > inner borders of emphasized span of text. The latter is mostly=20 > meaningful, however I am unsure if bold space has the same width as=20 > regular one, and space in fixed width font is certainly distinct. > > The problem with the "\--" entity is that it is not handled properly at=20 > the start of emphasis region. It neither disables emphasis nor parsed as= =20 > complete entity, instead it becomes combination of "\-" shy hyphen and=20 > literal "-". > > Unsure if it can be solved consistently. Possible ways: > - It addition to space-like (in respect to current regexp) entity add=20 > another one that acts as a part of word, but like "\--" stripped from=20 > output. Likely it should be accompanied by more changes in the parser=20 > and regexps. > - Provide some new explicit syntax for literal character, start of=20 > emphasis group, end of emphasis group. The fact that \-- was not parsed in your example is because entities cannot be directly followed by a letter (see 12.4 Special Symbols). You need *\--{}scratch\--* Concerning the 3 listed roles of the *_/+ markup, I propose to simplify the problem a bit and not try to make \-- serve as a proper escape symbol. Instead, we can document the already existing quoting entities: ("slash" "/" nil "/" "/" "/" "/") ("plus" "+" nil "+" "+" "+" "+") ("under" "\\_" nil "_" "_" "_" "_") ("equal" "=3D" nil "=3D" "=3D" "=3D" "=3D") ("star" "\\star" t "*" "*" "*" "=E2=8B=86") Then, your example should better be written as \star{}scratch\star \-- may better work between markup, not inside. > Concerning zero width space workaround, I may be wrong, but Nicolas=20 > might consider using U+200B zero width space as the escape character for= =20 > itself: single one is filtered out during export, double zero width=20 > space becomes single character. (I do not like this kind of "white=20 > space" programming language".) This is too complex, IMHO. If desired, we can again go the entity road and introduce \zws entity. Note that we already have ("nbsp" "~" nil " " " " "=C2=A0" "=C2=A0") ("ensp" "\\hspace*{.5em}" nil " " " " " " "=E2=80=82") ("emsp" "\\hspace*{1em}" nil " " " " " " "=E2=80=83") ("thinsp" "\\hspace*{.2em}" nil " " " " " " "=E2=80=89") Generally, it is a good idea to advertise entities in the manual. Zero-width space is not only limited, it is impossible to use, e.g. in tables when you want to quote "|". The only solution is using \vert or \vbar entity. > Another question is whether U+2060 word=20 > joiner (or some other character) should be added either as alternative=20 > to zero width space or to allow =3D verbatim =3D fixed width text=20 > surrounded by fixed width spaces. This particular example is tricky. If we put escape symbol _inside_ the verbatim, it is never possible to know if the user intents to use that symbol literally or not. But non-space before/after opening/closing markup char is hard-coded and changing it is fragile. Instead of using some kind of "escape" symbol here, I suggest turning to the idea about inline special blocks. We can introduce a more verbose markup that will allow spaces inside at the beginning/end of the contents. https://orgmode.org/list/87a6b8pbhg.fsf@posteo.net Manuel Mac=C3=ADas [ML:Org mode] (2022) About 'inline special blocks' Instead of using the tricky *bold text*, we may allow _*{bold text}*_ or something similar, with _name{...}name_ being inline special block. Best, Ihor