From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp10.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id +c28NXVe2mPLQgAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 13:43:34 +0100 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp10.migadu.com with LMTPS id OJMkM3Ve2mPMvgAAG6o9tA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 13:43:33 +0100 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A14312F7A4 for ; Wed, 1 Feb 2023 13:43:33 +0100 (CET) Received: from localhost ([::1] helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNCRa-0004rk-7P; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 07:42:30 -0500 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNCRX-0004qq-Tp for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 07:42:28 -0500 Received: from mout02.posteo.de ([185.67.36.66]) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1pNCRV-0001xR-LX for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 01 Feb 2023 07:42:27 -0500 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03CAD2408AF for ; Wed, 1 Feb 2023 13:42:22 +0100 (CET) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1675255343; bh=CX7IP8J15sQpOEmXEzBKWIgt6eWvhGO9r2a1EqjRi2E=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=AqfmRxrrxRy+xAyLOAK7+9cjp0H8leOgqwUoNMLb8TxGZ37wmWHKveoXSoE1KhbH6 BKBU+YpdvRjHDH4/HMlDSmLuefiYTN2hLHDZElhwQ2cAZfRnebV20vojkX933tXBrD ExSpq79F9bvIerRB8avugxrUeTA6baYt64kCwUmijjqxY8kpohPGiVW62DbjwSqKSN XsK0TbQ6dk242VEeqivNPaoYGqzZQ0/0nmknXfB8X9zdJ7kmDRM+FtV4tfUuUXzn/k zECGv0AeDUy0LW4Nqqr4r4knnSrtlpc9MUvakpTRpJUWzvKKk4r3ts+M/vQh6rht6B IfwR6aD+3JG+g== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4P6M4q3Y7nz9rxK; Wed, 1 Feb 2023 13:42:19 +0100 (CET) From: Ihor Radchenko To: Jean Louis Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [POLL] Proposed syntax for timestamps with time zone info (was: [FEATURE REQUEST] Timezone support in org-mode datestamps and org-agenda) In-Reply-To: References: <63c9d976.620a0220.a7d40.113b@mx.google.com> <87tu0mjb24.fsf@tsdye.online> <63ca1283.170a0220.5bc81.0fdd@mx.google.com> <87pmb9k8oi.fsf@tsdye.online> <3035CDD5-41DD-4516-9E4E-9E0DF16BE2E0@gmail.com> <87lelo8c9r.fsf@localhost> <2150768.1675077958@archlinux> <87tu063ox2.fsf@localhost> <87h6w63jgg.fsf@localhost> Date: Wed, 01 Feb 2023 12:42:54 +0000 Message-ID: <877cx1lfox.fsf@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=yantar92@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1675255413; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=hVJwxrY+q5YmnJqjBocxkcUxlVblvEj1JveGFKcZGtE=; b=j0BjuBmvXzBFqW4ByXJgFDGOlKyCi+yvr5WFgV27PDVoHg/qb9s0DzIVffg6I2vZnksiYH 05ocdxp41WXvEmgdvzQJs7cK1YNR+pYmS1RIlFgfpAVOmy8ds8+KeZZgGroRzVFIYVjywY kLXWe4bTqMvMINDvte2J/JhBkzIx34+wBhDAEcYLtB9QyBk/+5DmuRbfBWjGmoTvvb5a6X A/mAtUOoH+lSquH9ABZZSUFrPxySwi2NIo+KPbmzUVvL/3BNQhCzwrVxUrHgPlBPrKxBM/ QPa83Q29T1yCQbb/k94SX1Q0ehGyrnnZ6S2KgsH6/tt0897sxeGuvneU97yGGg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=AqfmRxrr; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1675255413; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=UYPV9YODmYy7OqIdBGJiCaZrg2wHK5BbpMpEWnqDy6Zbf+r0v1XdjrkK4eRZ4mk7udg6uQ vNnMXv7e+O29pukJoaGXFnSuFIvv4nMNgKY1Y+1/6BQN2gpAvsUpE2hbRjrwALdIDPOtZM O08MAZHPj2G8q1MzRuVxtg7SVNooLjAfoaRZH4yPKhATFITFJp/ghcECwZ3gSdreiV2kP+ TWlwHpEMBp4W5Mg82Z+e0g2B+USr5mC00vZbVQezwhgAa8MqdQrKedMUOTC52cxLtBG4/B xk0G6VQv5lZm0xG0q/sj0sHJA6ug5es636Z4AmwfhQq9AR7NG0+ZTgNpQbe/WQ== Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=AqfmRxrr; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org"; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-Spam-Score: -5.84 X-Migadu-Queue-Id: A14312F7A4 X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -5.84 X-TUID: a3fFpLXSdLQo Jean Louis writes: >> Consider that you are running a scientific experiment around daylight >> saving time change: [2022-10-29 2:15-5:15+02]. You don't care that the >> government decided that the wall clock should go like 2:15 -> 2:59 -> >> [CEST -> CET] 2:00 -> 2:15 -> 2:59. Physics does not care. You just need >> to make sure that the experiment runs exactly 3 hours without trying to >> consider the currently used TZ rules. > > Sorry, I cannot see how running the experiment three hours long is > related to exchange of for example, appointments, or calendar events > that shall be represented in possibly different time zones. It is not related. > It seems you have different personal purposes for time representation > in Org. Indeed. Org is used by a variety of users with different needs. What I just demonstrated is that specifying the time zone is not always necessary in timestamps. Note that my proposal allows specifying the time zone when you need it. Or not specifying it and specifying the UTC offset only. Your use-case with appointments is covered. My example is also covered. > Are you sure that telling not to care is good notion? Maybe I used the words wrongly. I meant that physical phenomena do not follow human conventions and wall time. -- Ihor Radchenko // yantar92, Org mode contributor, Learn more about Org mode at . Support Org development at , or support my work at