From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp1 ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms11 with LMTPS id +MQnEW3sql4weQAA0tVLHw (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 15:19:09 +0000 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:4a6f::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp1 with LMTPS id cFCMMHbsql5PUwAAbx9fmQ (envelope-from ) for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 15:19:18 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [IPv6:2001:470:142::17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E2004940B6A for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 15:19:16 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost ([::1]:47084 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUAy3-00043K-Rd for larch@yhetil.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 11:19:15 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:39306) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUAtK-00014R-IX for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 11:18:27 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUAqv-0001HV-Fn for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 11:14:22 -0400 Received: from relay7-d.mail.gandi.net ([217.70.183.200]:53503) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1jUAqu-0000yk-QA for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 11:11:53 -0400 X-Originating-IP: 185.131.40.67 Received: from localhost (40-67.ipv4.commingeshautdebit.fr [185.131.40.67]) (Authenticated sender: admin@nicolasgoaziou.fr) by relay7-d.mail.gandi.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 9A50720014 for ; Thu, 30 Apr 2020 15:11:47 +0000 (UTC) From: Nicolas Goaziou To: Org Mode List Subject: [RFC] Change default value for `org-startup-folded'? Mail-Followup-To: Org Mode List Date: Thu, 30 Apr 2020 17:11:46 +0200 Message-ID: <874kt1atzh.fsf@nicolasgoaziou.fr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=217.70.183.200; envelope-from=mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr; helo=relay7-d.mail.gandi.net X-detected-operating-system: by eggs.gnu.org: First seen = 2020/04/30 11:11:48 X-ACL-Warn: Detected OS = Linux 3.11 and newer [fuzzy] X-Received-From: 217.70.183.200 X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Scanner: scn0 X-Spam-Score: 1.49 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=none; dmarc=none; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 2001:470:142::17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Scan-Result: default: False [1.49 / 13.00]; RCVD_VIA_SMTP_AUTH(0.00)[]; GENERIC_REPUTATION(0.00)[-0.49416533477504]; HAS_XOIP(0.00)[]; MX_INVALID(1.00)[cached]; DWL_DNSWL_FAIL(0.00)[2001:470:142::17:server fail]; R_SPF_ALLOW(-0.20)[+ip6:2001:470:142::/48:c]; IP_REPUTATION_HAM(0.00)[asn: 22989(0.17), country: US(-0.00), ip: 2001:470:142::17(-0.49)]; TO_DN_ALL(0.00)[]; MAILLIST(-0.20)[mailman]; FORGED_RECIPIENTS_MAILLIST(0.00)[]; SUBJECT_ENDS_QUESTION(1.00)[]; R_DKIM_NA(0.00)[]; ASN(0.00)[asn:22989, ipnet:2001:470:142::/48, country:US]; MID_RHS_MATCH_FROM(0.00)[]; TAGGED_FROM(0.00)[larch=yhetil.org]; ARC_NA(0.00)[]; RCVD_COUNT_FIVE(0.00)[6]; FROM_NEQ_ENVFROM(0.00)[mail@nicolasgoaziou.fr,emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org]; FROM_HAS_DN(0.00)[]; MIME_GOOD(-0.10)[text/plain]; PREVIOUSLY_DELIVERED(0.00)[emacs-orgmode@gnu.org]; DMARC_NA(0.00)[nicolasgoaziou.fr]; HAS_LIST_UNSUB(-0.01)[]; RCPT_COUNT_ONE(0.00)[1]; DNSWL_BLOCKED(0.00)[2001:470:142::17:from]; MIME_TRACE(0.00)[0:+]; RCVD_TLS_LAST(0.00)[]; FORGED_SENDER_MAILLIST(0.00)[] X-TUID: +i0czQAZyvey Hello, Reading a recent message on Emacs devel list, I stumbled upon this: I needed to go and look up to figure out how to read the org file that came with pdf-tools. It isn't that much text, and the annoying folding that org does for what amounts to a simple README file is gratuitous at best. it struck me that our default value for `org-startup-folded', which t (or `overview') may not be nice for people not used to Org. It would make sense to make it easier for non-Org users who have to deal with Org files to set this variable to `showeverything'. This would also be on par with Outline mode, the major mode used to handle, e.g., NEWS file. Even though I think `overview' is a nice value, the logic behind my suggestion is that it is easier for an Org user to set `org-startup-folded' once and for all than for a non-Org user to discover Org folding the hard way. WDYT? Regards, -- Nicolas Goaziou