From: "Eric Schulte" <schulte.eric@gmail.com>
To: Joost Helberg <joost@snow.nl>
Cc: bzg@altern.org, emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
Subject: Re: Org expert mode?
Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 14:41:41 -0700 [thread overview]
Message-ID: <8739muac16.fsf@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <20110310.222520.32509650.joost@snow.nl> (Joost Helberg's message of "Thu, 10 Mar 2011 22:25:20 +0100 (CET)")
Hi,
I tend to agree with Joost's sentiments.
In my opinion the current Org-mode---despite all of the power lurking
just beneath the surface---is entirely usable as a very simple plain
text notes buffer. The user need know nothing more than how to press
tab on a headline to expand-contract it's contents.
This is how I try to introduce Org-mode to new users.
"Just think of it as plain text notes, and whenever you realize you
want a new feature, look in the manual... chances are someone has
already implemented it."
Best -- Eric
Joost Helberg <joost@snow.nl> writes:
> Bastien and others,
>
> When I worked in Hoofddorp in the early 90's, I travelled 2.5 hours by
> train every day. I reserved half of the train-time every single day
> for a year checking out GNU Emacs stuff I didn't understand on my
> notebook. This helped me a lot in going places (aka major modes, elisp
> code and, later, customizations) I didn't dare visiting before.
>
> The same is true for most of the *Customization* stuff. Seeing things
> beyond your boundaries of understanding satisfies curiosity. Checking out
> stuff you don't completely understand is part of the Emacs journey. A
> journey which is a lot more exciting than any other virtual software
> inspired journey I've encountered.
>
> The creation of an `Expert mode' will make the exploration of new
> features `by accident' or by ambitious curiosity less likely. I think
> introducing an expert mode (is the plain and simple org-mode not
> already quite for experts already?) a bad thing.
>
> Then the semantics of `expert' come around. Expert in what field?
> Organisation? Elisp? Time-clocking? Org-mode key bindings? There must
> be over 5 different experts in using org-mode, which may be even
> overlapping.
>
> Personally I don't mind superfluous messages in GNU Emacs, if any.
> They disappear fast enough and don't appear to slow down things;
> though I might be wrong here of course.
>
> Last, but not least, org-mode users are honest people, at least to
> themselves they are, they must be! Many of them will have trouble
> admitting they're an expert in org-mode; they won't tick the
> box. They'll miss features they would otherwise try.
>
> Org-mode is the best invention since sliced bread and if not, GNU
> Emacs is, keep up the good work!
>
> many regards,
>
> Joost Helberg
>
>>>>>> "Bastien" == Bastien <bzg@altern.org> writes:
> > Subject: [O] Org expert mode?
> > From: Bastien <bzg@altern.org>
> > To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org
> > Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 11:05:32 +0100
>
> > Hi all,
>
> > Org tries to stay as simple/accessible as possible for newbie and as
> > complete/flexible as possible for power users.
>
> > The documentation and the UI are central for this: the documentation
> > should promote core features, document complex ones, and give pointers
> > on how to hack Org -- it does that already IMO; the UI should give
> > access to core features and give hints on complex ones, so that the
> > user can learn more.
>
> > I've just added the ability to run a custom function for bulk agenda
> > actions (thanks to Puneeth for the patch!) This is clearly for power
> > users -- or those who are willing to take the time to find functions
> > that we might document in Worg.
>
> > So I naturally thought of something like an "Org Expert mode": when
> > turned off, the UI would *not* give access to complex features and
> > perhaps display more helpful messages on simple ones; when turned on,
> > Org would have a less verbose UI (think of the C-c C-e window, do we
> > really want to *read* it all the times?) and give access to all the
> > complex features.
>
> > This is really just a call for ideas/comments -- I wonder if people
> > already came accross such an idea and and what they think.
>
> > I'm myself not convinced: it's a good thing that Org doesn't need an
> > Expert mode so far, it means newbies are not confused by the UI, and
> > experts are not frustrated by it either. But I expect neat features
> > can emerge from the discussion.
>
> > Thanks for your thoughts!
>
> > --
> > Bastien
next prev parent reply other threads:[~2011-03-10 21:41 UTC|newest]
Thread overview: 21+ messages / expand[flat|nested] mbox.gz Atom feed top
2011-03-10 10:05 Org expert mode? Bastien
2011-03-10 10:11 ` Bastien
2011-03-10 10:36 ` Rainer M Krug
2011-03-20 2:08 ` Matt Lundin
2011-03-21 7:25 ` Rainer M Krug
2011-03-10 12:38 ` Greg Troxel
2011-03-10 14:14 ` John Hendy
2011-03-10 10:35 ` Filippo A. Salustri
2011-03-10 15:30 ` Julien Danjou
2011-03-10 17:43 ` Scott Randby
2011-03-10 18:46 ` Samuel Wales
2011-03-10 23:46 ` Suvayu Ali
2011-03-10 19:33 ` Robert Pluim
2011-03-10 21:25 ` Joost Helberg
2011-03-10 21:41 ` Eric Schulte [this message]
2011-03-10 23:22 ` Bernt Hansen
2011-03-11 8:28 ` Bastien
-- strict thread matches above, loose matches on Subject: below --
2011-03-10 13:12 Rustom Mody
2011-03-10 13:44 ` Rainer M Krug
2011-03-10 14:11 ` Matthew Sauer
2011-03-10 22:37 ` Christian Moe
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