From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Richard Lawrence Subject: Re: current status of citation syntax discussion Date: Thu, 18 Jun 2015 08:26:50 -0700 Message-ID: <87381pox51.fsf@berkeley.edu> References: <87bngfa0un.fsf@gmx.us> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Return-path: Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:4830:134:3::10]:56764) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5bjP-0004kD-6j for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jun 2015 11:27:56 -0400 Received: from Debian-exim by eggs.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5bjH-0004G7-Gv for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jun 2015 11:27:55 -0400 Received: from plane.gmane.org ([80.91.229.3]:37341) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.71) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5bjH-0004FI-AC for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jun 2015 11:27:47 -0400 Received: from list by plane.gmane.org with local (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1Z5bj7-0004SX-HI for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Thu, 18 Jun 2015 17:27:37 +0200 Received: from c-67-169-117-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([67.169.117.151]) by main.gmane.org with esmtp (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2015 17:27:37 +0200 Received: from richard.lawrence by c-67-169-117-151.hsd1.ca.comcast.net with local (Gmexim 0.1 (Debian)) id 1AlnuQ-0007hv-00 for ; Thu, 18 Jun 2015 17:27:37 +0200 List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Hi Rasmus and all, Rasmus writes: > Matt Price writes: > >> Am just wondering what the current status is of the work that was being >> done earlier this year on improved citation support in org. Has an >> official syntax been settled on? > > AFAIK: No. Some people wanted something like [cite/type: pre @key post]. > Some people wanted additional key-value support, something like > [cite: pre @key post]{:key val}. Some people wanted @key > to be able to contain arbitrary characters such as punctuation. I just wanted to chime in about this. While Rasmus is right that we didn't reach complete agreement on everything, it seemed to me that we agreed on quite a lot. As Nicolas notes, the core of what we agreed on has been implemented in Org syntax in the wip-cite branch. Consensus seemed to be that we should hold off on adopting any standard syntax for the points of disagreement Rasmus mentions until we have a greater sense of what's needed, based on real-world use. There has also been some work on implementing the semantics for the citation syntax. Aaron Ecay wrote an org-cite library that uses citeproc-java to process citations on export. His version is in the wip-cite-awe branch. I believe (though I don't remember exactly) that Aaron's version of org-cite doesn't support the full syntax in the wip-cite branch yet. I further modified Aaron's org-cite library to support the full syntax and to do citation processing via pandoc-citeproc, rather than citeproc-java. My version is in the wip-cite-org-citeproc branch, available here: https://github.com/wyleyr/org-mode To use this code, you also need org-citeproc, a command-line wrapper around pandoc-citeproc that the org-cite library talks to: https://github.com/wyleyr/org-citeproc I got this setup working pretty well with at least Chicago-like citation styles. More work is needed to make org-citeproc work with footnote or numeric styles. Vaidheeswaran also added support for processing citations via JabRef. His work is here: http://repo.or.cz/w/org-mode/org-cv.git I believe that at the moment, Vaidheeswaran's implementation is only integrated with the ODT exporter, though I am not sure. AFAIK, that's the state of things. I personally haven't had much time for hacking on org-cite or org-citeproc, though I hope to get back to it in a couple of weeks. To be honest, I have been a bit reluctant to press on with it because at least some people (Aaron, Rasmus) seem to feel pretty strongly that they don't want Org citation processing to depend on a Haskell-based tool. That's fine, but it means we need an alternative. The main non-Haskell contenders for CSL processing are citeproc-java and citeproc-js. So, if that's the way we want to go, someone needs to write the equivalent of org-citeproc for one of these libraries: a wrapper around them that allows the org-cite library to make use of them during export. (Unfortunately, that means I am not the man for the job. I don't know Java or JavaScript, and I am not really interested in learning them just for the sake of this project.) I hope I haven't missed anything; those are my impressions of where we're at! Best, Richard