From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp12.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms5.migadu.com with LMTPS id cLORIhYt3GL0ugAAbAwnHQ (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 19:17:10 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:8:6d80::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp12.migadu.com with LMTPS id OJtfIhYt3GI5DwEAauVa8A (envelope-from ) for ; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 19:17:10 +0200 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 131C53F069 for ; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 19:17:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:56632 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oFIkV-0000dO-1L for larch@yhetil.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 13:17:08 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:41152) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oFIj8-0000Zf-K9 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 13:15:44 -0400 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:44653) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1oFIj4-0004d0-8H for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 13:15:39 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6ECA240026 for ; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 19:15:35 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1658596535; bh=XVYapx/s8kHTiC5n0TcP9IS7tsMk6GUJQVplNDrM66s=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=iq2MaDaFTYOfOhFbh3aLlnt6GBwmK8SjKPxh5k0FKLf63l33DNpBtnyRJ7tg5wmaT LmdTceFWawnalDFTpmcHm0pYLYp6V87lPP3MpaPdHTLuABKomGDYmJpg6mCZ/LzfiM 5znfH2Nwr68BiKX8/kbN3Sgkp07gkzb+hPcuEYV5GHyUQVo4k9/AsBmixw/18Pn2w0 ByRP/+mAUzHWpRIfCgFsGUTrHKe0ffW6yp7Mt4qyBUi6wwJHpLQeeWcK/Lw7RqISfa IpM24Wjtb4iWfvzJuLHucJEZf0jsaqBOrZZQr6sCxhP9GK7Sf+Y7LrzqPLRWG/NbMd ixEeNEWWUY5TQ== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4LqtHC1Pc2z6tmH; Sat, 23 Jul 2022 19:15:34 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Juan_Manuel_Mac=C3=ADas?= To: Max Nikulin Cc: orgmode Subject: Improvements in the default LaTeX preamble (was: [PATCH] ox-latex.el: Unify in one single list Babel and Polyglossia languages alists) References: <87sfxiw2jp.fsf@posteo.net> <87czeduxnz.fsf@localhost> <87lesvlvos.fsf@posteo.net> <87bkto83n7.fsf@localhost> <87v8rtno2j.fsf@posteo.net> <87h73c527u.fsf@posteo.net> <87mtd3a2uw.fsf@posteo.net> <87wnc6wk3n.fsf@posteo.net> <87v8rp48i5.fsf@posteo.net> <87r12d44ws.fsf@posteo.net> Date: Sat, 23 Jul 2022 17:15:32 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Max Nikulin's message of "Sat, 23 Jul 2022 22:19:25 +0700") Message-ID: <8735erpx6z.fsf_-_@posteo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=maciaschain@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1658596630; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=7BrryA1yrQEceJFJ20h7wf29GcOj6IQ9iB9DHuH+yd0=; b=F7/0gaPBnW2wefktA39q/7zpwi/P1vN8dvGlUQZWc0xRdR9kBHsEf9HByuzQujpeC2G2Ad Oct3yqr2PaodxXDZzJNVUOpf9YNGmUxq0YYKBGH8jTzJxcVXtOhsKjLXWjU1WvKeaHoZDE trHlT5wpFZlztOPJOYuHxS8H9+TBm5g0pkE98cvtaw28VlWv3bwJbiNz8WSw9SX6sbOGm6 R2ngu9xwE1+lUl9D431vO9GZk6O12uqE/E3t1fTd/M2Gnzm0ap9I7Y8CMz9VxR995pSEi9 exuNh6Sst/n0k+qJa0RXotwWeNnTvtB576PRbo262z1V9u23hpYygN7CaOLlTg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1658596630; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=WUJwFwW5ZiRKu2b5hW4tE9bdmdaOe2JG5eO4WKGpP18vzgLLAP2dTbHc42wjhr36k+KfSA NUYYXAndixi79fWsruzALEPzITW25545gVBXESkd7wh0jfCwiE75utt/UzKRxYbuvMgiGN Wy2OfyIh0tWwLoO9PKGvINDWnUrVF3RWkGNi6IeOLgsW5TtttlR+UGQCXJHmULvBphpe6Z BwdnubyYEP40Khw+uAtvSWIAa6VOyAhNTxfITzaKGC+UYv9f5moJGypBUZClOUrssAEkI4 zDmjO7zHIRx2okLWWSLcBTpuFdpqvH37lZftdf5T1wlXeFwJpEtJB2V2zLSAUQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=iq2MaDaF; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -9.23 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=iq2MaDaF; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 131C53F069 X-Spam-Score: -9.23 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: OG5vYnaSnmJt Max Nikulin writes: > My vote is to configure babel by default if it is possible to provide > default preamble that allows reasonable quality of PDF for simple Org > documents with no explicit configuration. > > Ideally, the following should be possible out of the box. When no > advanced features are involved, user should be able to just export > document to e.g. having printed version of their notes during a > meeting, to send a summary to the boss. etc. It should be possible for > users completely ignorant in respect to LaTeX. > > Likely language is not enough and e.g. paper size should be guessed > (LC_PAPER?) as well. > > If a document require careful tuning then a couple of extra lines in > the org file or a couple of additional custom variables in the init > file should not be a problem. I think that my position, after all these discussions here and in other threads, needs a couple of clarifications: - I am in favor of Org producing a consistent "standard" preamble for LaTeX out-of-the-box, so that users get a technically optimal PDF without messing with LaTeX code. This would include not only issues related to document languages (babel and polyglossia) but also fonts (especially XelaTeX and LuaLaTeX support), page layout (with geometry package), publishing support and some other things that can be proposed here. In this regard, I have changed the subject of this thread, if that's okay with you. - I can agree that all of the above is by default. But it seems essential to me that there is at least the possibility of giving all that a nil value at a global level, for users who need more control and want to write (La)TeX code or want to load the entire preamble from an external document (a .tex file or a .sty file) . Which is not incompatible with document-level control and fine-tuning (*only* if the above is enabled). Best regards, Juan Manuel