From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mp0 ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by ms0.migadu.com with LMTPS id 4JuvBmSKS2GNawAAgWs5BA (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 21:56:20 +0200 Received: from aspmx1.migadu.com ([2001:41d0:2:bcc0::]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits)) by mp0 with LMTPS id 8K9iAmSKS2GLVQAA1q6Kng (envelope-from ) for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 19:56:20 +0000 Received: from lists.gnu.org (lists.gnu.org [209.51.188.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by aspmx1.migadu.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 05E0D13B7E for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 21:56:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost ([::1]:59270 helo=lists1p.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mT8Lp-0000Kq-1R for larch@yhetil.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 15:56:17 -0400 Received: from eggs.gnu.org ([2001:470:142:3::10]:38602) by lists.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mT8L0-0000KV-Pp for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 15:55:26 -0400 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]:50975) by eggs.gnu.org with esmtps (TLS1.2:ECDHE_RSA_AES_256_GCM_SHA384:256) (Exim 4.90_1) (envelope-from ) id 1mT8Kx-0003Dw-Ao for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 15:55:26 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [89.146.220.130]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DF27E240026 for ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 21:55:20 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1632340520; bh=3M3/5ggYQ+HJJtW9BH5+Pb5Z2B0XNBzajo4bXZh33LQ=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:From; b=EGbMWGU09SEMs6a90HLSFjSNP7SlnV/C4tk7XQLltbmqM4LyRLH7eZDKXBxchSiDA 6ndDSJQAMrA7RZKi2jgUMcmYmotabAdGywBQhPxbmrIICkNHJj5ZXRsPxq7XRtlikY jwfhV1IwJMQWSNt+42pYij8qlW9zPUDkEffBfeqI6ANdA6DRjrJSmmkVeFBTmIL42v q3MRMMJKhqOMlsP+/u6L/6Nzv9nAXVNy2jdp1TNcObDoRbN3GI5MPL3ypF8deDpEuo ItC1kz3OnII9fobCLTkFLIAACl3oDtOjYYkAJMqRhdvRjCUf696EEB8an6NUQ9Ij9Q BkT67smF934Kg== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4HF8Cr1llxz6tmJ; Wed, 22 Sep 2021 21:55:20 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Juan_Manuel_Mac=C3=ADas?= To: Max Nikulin Subject: Re: [PATCH] ox.el: add smart quotes for Greek References: <87bl4omst8.fsf@posteo.net> <279c8d6d-ebcf-2149-416d-c75bdf227f05@gmail.com> <874kad1y12.fsf@posteo.net> Date: Wed, 22 Sep 2021 19:55:19 +0000 In-Reply-To: (Max Nikulin's message of "Thu, 23 Sep 2021 00:19:30 +0700") Message-ID: <871r5ge66w.fsf@posteo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.65; envelope-from=maciaschain@posteo.net; helo=mout01.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.23 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Cc: orgmode Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1632340579; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=OpwoRePqypq/5qsjIK5UhCEB0dAkqb/tUV1mmYsTa6k=; b=f5mBELs7NXno8XbrCEaMkVvb5hvJzHYL/GyXTlJs62hYUnCsNqVYbvL+QiZDc/25/r4Axt XHITlXWFZfn4p8uJ80VRpl68B81UEuLebU6j0NaZW+qjZZ7EGVisQ3qQ0IB4tBWpQN7TG0 9OLjlldu4taskfara/sE3QwDyfx3L1TZ2FZ0dobRP4LcESsVCo7XoWT1lQedOZamgqYGz4 fQ8gypzmM0rycx1bkrj4ZDAE7VcAmR42knMG6BmyTRPkWxMNvToaDElldbRw18nyhaX2D3 K9YttuElpZafCK4QUxnTmS9ErwtzeJDAPksF0mn3xuCmWxHLYdI8+Dks7RROFA== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1632340579; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=UX4/U/pxdHXwPaR9vTop7JbiNM5OwfvLtEIt6tDEROCaH8R8NjWi4xF9WdmLO2rJteW+95 7l5Vkjr/ihzdS+g+VVPsNtyJNecfDIxCC8VAAuhLEl8VRVJs+YJEZ5cu0+5gvVdVxXGpCi odhEbelErO1Gc5IEmHBO5YTZhmx3yuyRWrdScb1tTr+Ya9b8zdyldiOWy1HvgtTXe72rJa iIzljiHMO3Z5XS00z7fVoMXJ21Sd//T/Imon4YvEgwTIEbeTrUv541uokIN5fmgrcY+QiC Qzq2TR+R5XBmYu18trNxcj4vIDQP4rnocdQQsfcBT42Id0bFQqATzXgSnTsBUg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=EGbMWGU0; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.09 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=posteo.net header.s=2017 header.b=EGbMWGU0; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=posteo.net; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom=emacs-orgmode-bounces@gnu.org X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 05E0D13B7E X-Spam-Score: -3.09 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn0.migadu.com X-TUID: x8Ro6CHdz0fq Max Nikulin writes: > I believe, the patch is an improvement. It would be nice to have a > comment clarifying the choice of secondary opening quote mark, but it > is not required. It seems there is no recommendations or established > practice for documenting of such decisions. I have not tested the > patch though. Since it's a "orthotypographical" addition, where there is a reasonable doubt in one of the characters, I agree that a minimal explanatory note in the commit message would be desirable. But it would have (IMHO) to be something very brief. >> -`org-export-smart-quotes-alist' and `org-export-dictionary'. >> +`org-export-smart-quotes-' and `org-export-dictionary'. > > It it intentional change? I have not found other variables having the > same prefix. Oh, sorry. It's a horrible typo: I modified that part involuntarily, and I didn't see it :-(. > That character could get better support in future. I know, such chance > is almost improbable, but imagine, a person familiar with the paper of > Haralambous would consider change of the quote mark in question > believing that Org developers were not aware of the "right" symbol. A > comment in the source code may provide a hint that the choice was conscious. > > I forgot to mention it in my message from 2020-08-15 that I did not > find the U+201F character in TeX pre-unicode LG* encodings for Greek. In fact, the character is only problematic in pdfTeX. In XeTeX and LuaTeX there is no problem, and you can also use the csquotes package. But in pdfTeX you can't even get it with the \usepackage[utf8x]{inputenc} option, which is to be expected, since Unicode support of imputenc is very limited. LuaTeX is the natural replacement for pdfTeX, but at the moment we have to maintain backward compatibility and I can't find a way to represent that character in pdfTeX. This second level quotes issue is not mentioned by Apostolos Syropoulos in the babel greek documentation: (https://www.ctan.org/pkg/babel-greek). There is probably no support for this character in babel-greek. Before uploading a corrected version of the patch (with a small explanatory note), I could consult Haralambous himself by mail, and ask him what he thinks of this question... Best regards, Juan Manuel