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From: "Juan Manuel Macías" <maciaschain@posteo.net>
To: Ihor Radchenko <yantar92@gmail.com>
Cc: orgmode <emacs-orgmode@gnu.org>
Subject: Re: [PATCH] Add new entity \-- serving as markup separator/escape symbol
Date: Fri, 29 Jul 2022 00:32:49 +0000	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <871qu4lpvy.fsf@posteo.net> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <87mtct9y1f.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Thu, 28 Jul 2022 21:17:32 +0800")

Hi, Ihor,

Ihor Radchenko writes:

> Given the raised objections, zero-width space does not appear to be a
> useful escape symbol because it has its valid uses as a standalone space
> symbol.
>
> The raised objections can be solved using some kind of intricate
> heuristics, but I do not feel like it is a good direction to go. The
> code will be too complex and fragile.
>
> Therefore, I am proposing a different approach for shielding
> fontification: introducing a special entity.
>
> The new entity is \--, which is a valid boundary between emphasis
> markup. It will be removed during export (replaced by "").
>
> "\--" specifically is somewhat arbitrary choice. The actual requirements
> for the entity name are: (1) No clash with LaTeX (which is why simpler
> \- would not cut it); (2) Being a valid markup boundary: entity must end
> with (any space ?- ?\( ?' ?\" ?\{).
>
> I am attaching a tentative patch introducing the new entity. Note that
> some minor tweaks to the parser were needed. I do not see it as a big
> deal - the current entity regexp has much more cumbersome exceptions.
>
> Also, the patch will not work correctly on org → org export, similar to
> pointed in one of the replies to the previous abandoned approach. I do
> not want to address it here because a much more appropriate solution for
> this issue is changing org-element-interpret-data.
>
> Consider (org-element-interpret-data '("asd" (bold () "bold") "bsd"))
> This will return "asd*bold*bsd", which is not correct even though the
> given Org datum is not wrong by itself - such things can easily appear
> when user filters are applied to parse tree during org→org export.
>
> Otherwise, the patch should be good enough to play around and kick-start
> the discussion.

I'm late joining this thread, although I am particularly interested in
the topic.

I can't make any technical comments because I haven't had time to test
the patch yet, but I have to say that your idea of using a special
entity seems to me the best approach to the problem. I would vote for
this to be the way to go.

I believe that using the zero width space character as an escape
character is not a happy idea, and I have already left my arguments in
some other thread, long ago. The zero width space is a random
workaround, but should not (in my opinion) be part of the markup. For
various reasons: it is not an ascii character, there are certain
contexts in which it can produce an unexpected result in LaTeX, etc. In
addition, the zero width space, as an escape character, has a curious
anomaly: it is an escape character that does not have a plan B and a way
to escape the escape character when you want to use it by itself.

I also like the idea of using a special entity because it is not
necessary to invent anything new and it takes advantage of an existing
resource.

Well, that's my opinion.

Best regards,

Juan Manuel


  parent reply	other threads:[~2022-07-29  0:33 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 29+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2012-11-19  5:32 How to force markup without spaces cinsky
2012-11-19  7:11 ` Vladimir Lomov
2012-11-19 10:06   ` Seong-Kook Shin
2012-11-19 14:40     ` Suvayu Ali
2012-12-13 21:26       ` Bastien
2022-07-25 17:50         ` K
2022-07-25 18:27         ` K
2022-07-25 19:02           ` K
2022-07-26  1:26             ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-26  2:23               ` Max Nikulin
2022-07-26  4:26                 ` K K
2022-07-26  6:30                   ` Max Nikulin
2022-07-26 12:59                   ` [PATCH] org-export: Remove zero-width space escapes during export Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-26 14:25                     ` Timothy
2022-07-26 15:27                       ` András Simonyi
2022-07-26 16:38                     ` Max Nikulin
2022-07-27  3:30                     ` Max Nikulin
2022-07-28 13:17                     ` [PATCH] Add new entity \-- serving as markup separator/escape symbol Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-28 15:34                       ` Max Nikulin
2022-07-29  1:43                         ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-29  2:50                           ` Max Nikulin
2022-07-29  9:06                             ` [PATCH v2] " Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-30  0:22                               ` Samuel Wales
2022-07-30  4:12                                 ` Samuel Wales
2022-07-30  6:49                                 ` Ihor Radchenko
2022-07-30 15:44                                   ` Max Nikulin
2022-07-28 22:20                       ` [PATCH] " Tim Cross
2022-07-29  0:32                       ` Juan Manuel Macías [this message]
2022-07-29  5:49                       ` tomas

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