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Thu, 10 Aug 2023 06:39:53 -0400 Received: from submission (posteo.de [185.67.36.169]) by mout02.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 08DEB240104 for ; Thu, 10 Aug 2023 12:39:47 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=posteo.net; s=2017; t=1691663988; bh=rY6Uwx2yGl8q9/AB67A0TJAzfJG4ahDPvm6JIRAqDoA=; h=From:To:Cc:Subject:Date:Message-ID:MIME-Version: Content-Transfer-Encoding:From; b=H0UXXTFekfheQscrpdlxa4PjTyn9XLT9NjjFmSjj92DNfRNnAtZgKvhtC8zUqwUJ2 cN0R9SAEJX7dNpu5XKrRzkrMcr/r8TMXZkRL60p+CIVnbhYHdGvZczoMX9tB6+Pt1G XjoDI0W7t6ui8V6BU+Imqag0/6w51CkRUSZUOxrMU6d64JAJYpOuBc1hn+uRaGx/hK DgmP9aMpxtCdbBzZBw8SKcuVwYc9WEIillRjB58Yceu3eIR3roZSdVpbfBZvPwbfLZ rLnB+SVtQbSaYzUKcHqIfIvk6UWMx7ffqcRQUh2cKlBB4XFfbKIbUIi8ubiJbXFmX5 EFee3IiKlH3KA== Received: from customer (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by submission (posteo.de) with ESMTPSA id 4RM3Ml3KBXz9rxG; Thu, 10 Aug 2023 12:39:47 +0200 (CEST) From: =?utf-8?Q?Juan_Manuel_Mac=C3=ADas?= To: Ihor Radchenko Cc: orgmode Subject: Re: [patch] ox-latex.el: fix blank lines behavior in verse block In-Reply-To: <87il9nb62q.fsf@localhost> (Ihor Radchenko's message of "Thu, 10 Aug 2023 09:27:25 +0000") References: <87tttcml75.fsf@posteo.net> <87edkf6px1.fsf@localhost> <87350ug413.fsf@posteo.net> <87o7jgejhl.fsf@localhost> <87pm3wfvzx.fsf@posteo.net> <87il9nb62q.fsf@localhost> Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2023 10:39:45 +0000 Message-ID: <871qgbb2q6.fsf@posteo.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Received-SPF: pass client-ip=185.67.36.66; envelope-from=maciaschain@posteo.net; helo=mout02.posteo.de X-Spam_score_int: -43 X-Spam_score: -4.4 X-Spam_bar: ---- X-Spam_report: (-4.4 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-Country: US X-Migadu-Queue-Id: AF6C146A99 X-Migadu-Scanner: mx1.migadu.com X-Spam-Score: -6.86 X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -6.86 X-TUID: 1Nl+5m4WlwKE Ihor Radchenko writes: > Well. Technically, we already warn users that the blank lines are > preserved in the verse blocks: > > 12.1 Paragraphs > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20=20=20=20=20 > Paragraphs are separated by at least one empty line. If you need to > enforce a line break within a paragraph, use =E2=80=98\\=E2=80=99 at = the end of a line. >=20=20=20=20=20 > To preserve the line breaks, indentation and blank lines in a regi= on, > but otherwise use normal formatting, you can use this construct, which > can also be used to format poetry. >=20=20=20=20=20 > > #+BEGIN_VERSE > Great clouds overhead > Tiny black birds rise and fall > Snow covers Emacs >=20=20=20=20=20 > ---AlexSchroeder > #+END_VERSE > > So, I now think that while extra cleanups might be OK for ox-latex, we > may not want to ignore empty lines universally in all the verse blocks. hmm, I don't know if phrased like that (as read in the documentation) it's clear enough that the empty lines before and after the content are also preserved. I would understand not, but it could also be a habit that I inherited from LaTeX: I usually leave a blank line between the #+begin/#+end directives and the content because it makes it easier for me to read. I don't know if it is a widespread habit among other users... Anyway, I don't mind leaving things as they are in the other backends, but in the case of LaTeX, with my patch modifications, it would be necessary to remove the blank lines before and after the content. Otherwise it would produce something like: \begin{verse} \\[0pt] \\[0pt] \\[0pt] \\[0pt] \\[0pt] lorem ipsum dolor \end{verse} which would return the error "There's no line here to end". Also, the LaTeX 'verse' environment has its own syntax for vertical spaces. It is not necessary to put an explicit \vspace just to separate stanzas. ... In any case, the fact that the verse block can also be used to literally export line breaks and horizontal/vertical spaces is interesting. Something occurred to me that I don't know if it's a bit foolhardy: how about a LaTeX attribute ':literal t'? If used, it would not export to a verse environment (specialized in poetry) but to normal text, without environment, but with line breaks and horizontal and vertical spacing preserved... wdyt? --=20 Juan Manuel Mac=C3=ADas https://juanmanuelmacias.com https://lunotipia.juanmanuelmacias.com https://gnutas.juanmanuelmacias.com