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[2001:44b8:31f2:bb00:842a:7361:87c7:2662]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 65-20020a621744000000b005289a50e4c2sm7227676pfx.23.2022.09.23.19.09.06 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Fri, 23 Sep 2022 19:09:07 -0700 (PDT) References: <871qs6ygmv.fsf@gnu.org> <87bkrasnla.fsf@localhost> <871qs6li9l.fsf@gnu.org> <874jx2wqgi.fsf@tec.tecosaur.net> <87czbq7ach.fsf@gnu.org> <87fsgmqu1h.fsf@localhost> <87r105xicb.fsf@localhost> <87a66ra45s.fsf@localhost> <87mtar2yph.fsf@gnu.org> <87mtaq95sr.fsf@localhost> <87bkr61tmw.fsf@gnu.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.9.0; emacs 29.0.50 From: Tim Cross To: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: IM dev discussions? Date: Sat, 24 Sep 2022 11:44:19 +1000 In-reply-to: <87bkr61tmw.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <86o7v5mslb.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::102a; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pj1-x102a.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1663985413; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=OswPEXytO+zEOW7+NAcvIBtotN1w1dOO0rB9TISD4gM=; b=C5EnrqFqlURrt78/PyjG54fGG8QB16W2xhMj4CUU4ExWY6PSHKpQ7K2DXdJJCfQrFtvJ+G 2IFVcmoQQObIHIHreBA8pcHhVb0t0jK82zot8xYFeU/9rFQ1jKMWeA1rsRFtexubkfrrGy V7RuQorCmEcgxbq8Wt4wrvwrDHRIe1IYORCDFicFZxvptbfV80LbLgZFEZIgnBgAhXtth3 ZOd3VbwSfKF8mVG3OukfFIz/T2d5vaGXvpNSV6vv5I7uAOv+6gzeILtAbw86Q+0PFDAB1b bKU83qPyYe3eQOTUIRYXyWuwwCdaljYE/bKDmZxR/3oBYQbZeBvFJNcAWrYyLw== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1663985413; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=XNAW0F/AeH/F0mXvoQTycaESdAzGeDJYb2hxfch9tiyEX0pk2/Gz5WZwuGk4aJ+QXTnPzU gnjZbpmy49MkrE+CHlUWbH6zvMasY1EI2POXW3YM7op2U/Jk4+iqWbikvxnb52zSGKM8yW 8gEXLw6xTEeYRLTvJgtWozRqp91iP9pmXPZFOlIPzPZpmnTqyLO63WLlN94TINQ21XaGbo JKfcACb4egZxj1de5uc0Vz1YGf2BBgp/aJzcSxQ/wgtjbVKt+efRBNnWurl6g+f/4Vy3Wy EP82DU1mbSxnsEh5tC7Jkk16T+E5p+jURB8fjYg7Oq1ZNlPJHwwYQSErBlQLvg== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=qu073Mjd; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -2.85 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=qu073Mjd; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 7B1B184EE X-Spam-Score: -2.85 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: sf4TaLb6uDTD Bastien writes: > Of course, time and skills (and other psychological traits) are the > main parameters deciding whether someone can participate to these > discussions: but the more they take place on the mailing list, the > more inclusive they are IMHO. > > (I know this opinion is debatable: most <30yo (<35yo) hackers out > there will say that relying on a mailing list for such discussions > wards them off, insisting we should go on GitHub... but *anyone* can > send an email to a list, while only registered GitHub users can open > an issue. We certainly don't want to encourage anyone to register on > GitHub.) I observe the same behaviour. My kids (27, 24) both have email accounts, but only have them and use them for places which insist on an email address (like government services, universities etc). They use email only when they have to and check it only when they are expecting a message. For them, it is IM services (even there, the ones used will also depend on your age within the <30 - seems to be a trend from FB messenger, snapchat, discord, whatsapp, tiktok - and even there FB messenger is probably just to IM with their parents!). From their perspective, FB is what their parents use and email is what their grandparents use! No way will they use a mail list. Of course there are exceptions. You will likely find more young people who use Emacs and org will also use email more, but I don't know if that is because the types of people attracted to Emacs and org mode are also the types of people more attracted to email for comms. These days, when I want interactive chat, I actually prefer to go with real chat rather than text based chat. There are so many choices for voice chat these days, you may as well have real interaction and just talk! This is where the technology really blows my mind now. A little while ago, I was collaborating with someone where we were talking using a voice chat app. It was a bug squashing collaboration where we worked through a bunch of bugs together and got a heap fixed in a 2 hours intensive session. I was in Australia and they were in South America AND travelling on a bus! While there was a couple of instances where we lost voice comms briefly, it was remarkably successful and it still blows my mind that I was live coding with someone half way around the world, travelling on a bus while we coded and chatted in real time! 30 years ago, we would both need to be in stable locations with land-lines and IRC would be the most interaction we could hope for - voice definitely not!