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[2001:44b8:31f2:bb00:842a:7361:87c7:2662]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b8-20020a170902650800b00174f7d107c8sm6788264plk.293.2022.09.05.01.47.21 for (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 05 Sep 2022 01:47:22 -0700 (PDT) User-agent: mu4e 1.9.0; emacs 29.0.50 From: Tim Cross To: Org-mode Subject: org-babel-load-languages usability issue Date: Mon, 05 Sep 2022 17:23:11 +1000 Message-ID: <86fsh61a3u.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::535; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pg1-x535.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1662367838; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=ywkTQpu2EzvsoFQFBcX1Shg6zRekHRUUj5Kq/YJKSbQ=; b=O9f8CZqqVv9ScuX+qlaE00V25IPOJCSqob4d0giDLdezCUYyp4iphHb80Ps9PglvmP9IE8 7OTggDx3HYXrcCl/rsSucEEMaDCHTDI2euwnf9JZ18AmBSP7BX6ISEcNTIkEJcO2rCgoVV A32zB5F9B2g9UaXYrO6GDK48aEF786vB86WKTpXUwksWuMU1Hvda1AWpaklbazhsE8fSDR HHm+rge3E+zd8oPPOC5cXv9EK1R0QGzxlvRcoQtAoOpr089TjjGYq2pGgjibTSCCOgBYp+ Ul+6A8uACe28kXm1B+hfYaxDV3v5tP200LX+9nYpyjDYlRPBGMiT0PbBD+0i5g== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1662367838; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=letvhEho8F4Tm3PYuVMqDBjlYPaqM5vEOugp6uEz+ULDGR2ns2iWZrY4w5AvDJKSdcEKrq 157Eg9TjOa+8TCSVnwmF9t/CDMzvsVYhX4orAfnSz2k8KZHn3ihk1ShAS9TJ8YCQ+QrXwh xNb6pRCqLISayCDY9PhCp6GE3D/q3eV+e084PbiLNNU31GBdFLm9ycD0pf3fIJ50ytVg0Q 0aHXkRGqow7nRrDCbBeot6qDH0Lt2C4/qVWe29cboDuNv1TKYQqcJGR7vVoNsPkOJ6zcIJ 4VbJHqAxaXqEbIdsS+6bKXYsfV4WG1oEodCC28mTJ7hQoZlYBlrS7k3NIgdVxQ== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=mj1b+MdF; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -1.78 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=mj1b+MdF; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 48E5B10573 X-Spam-Score: -1.78 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: aEG3J6yft3f0 I'm not sure when the definition of the variable org-babel-load-languages changed, but I think we may need to consider either reverting it or making some other adjustment. Originally, this variable was an alist of languages and a boolean indicating whether the language should be loaded e.g. '((emacs-lisp . t) (clojure . t) (sql . nil)) which would load emacs-lisp and clojure, but not sql. However, the default value for the variable now appears to just be '((emacs-lisp . t)) This has two consequences. The first is that the doc string for the variable is now incorrect. It states in part "This list can be used to load support for any of the languages below. " There are no languages listed below. This also leads to the next issue. How does a user know what languages are supported and can be enabled? Previously, you had a list of all the supported built-in languages - most of which would be disabled (nil) by default. However, this did make it easy to know what languages are supported - you could use customize to change the flag from nil to t (or copy the default into your init file and modify appropriately. Now it doesn't seem to be as clear. Note also that the doc string refers to the variable as a list, when it is actually an alist (association list). This could be confusing, especially for new users. The doc string probably should describe the format more precisely i.e the CAR of each con cell making up the alist is a language syumbol e.g. emacs-lisp and the CDR is a boolean that will be 't if the language is to be loaded or nil otherwise. . Should the default value for this variable be a list of all the supported babel languages which are bundled with emacs, all of which set to 'nil' to disable them except emacs-lisp (to maintain existing semantics, though I do wonder if we should also enable eshell given we enable emacs-lisp by default because all necessary dependencies are provided by emacs, as is the case with eshell)? The alternative is to update the doc string. I guess we could reference the URL to the worg page which lists supported languages. However, I'm not sure this is a great solution from a usability perspective, particularly for new org mode users.