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[2001:44b8:31f2:bb00:842a:7361:87c7:2662]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id lj14-20020a17090b344e00b001f21a8f7f14sm8622056pjb.9.2022.08.08.15.26.35 (version=TLS1_3 cipher=TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 bits=256/256); Mon, 08 Aug 2022 15:26:37 -0700 (PDT) References: <875ykikvaz.fsf@localhost> <87sfnlk0tj.fsf@localhost> <874jzg5bg7.fsf@gnu.org> <87les9l9wv.fsf@localhost> <87pmhad9gv.fsf@gnu.org> User-agent: mu4e 1.8.8; emacs 29.0.50 From: Tim Cross To: Bastien Cc: Ihor Radchenko , Samuel Wales , Max Nikulin , emacs-orgmode@gnu.org Subject: Re: [PATCH] Delete some Emacs 24 compat code Date: Tue, 09 Aug 2022 08:12:29 +1000 In-reply-to: <87pmhad9gv.fsf@gnu.org> Message-ID: <86czdawew8.fsf@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Received-SPF: pass client-ip=2607:f8b0:4864:20::629; envelope-from=theophilusx@gmail.com; helo=mail-pl1-x629.google.com X-Spam_score_int: -20 X-Spam_score: -2.1 X-Spam_bar: -- X-Spam_report: (-2.1 / 5.0 requ) BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_SCC_BODY_TEXT_LINE=-0.01 autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no X-Spam_action: no action X-BeenThere: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org Sender: "Emacs-orgmode" X-Migadu-Flow: FLOW_IN X-Migadu-To: larch@yhetil.org X-Migadu-Country: US ARC-Message-Signature: i=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yhetil.org; s=key1; t=1659997658; h=from:from:sender:sender:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date: message-id:message-id:to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version: content-type:content-type:in-reply-to:in-reply-to: references:references:list-id:list-help:list-unsubscribe: list-subscribe:list-post:dkim-signature; bh=Q9qLyay+5g8IgPBpCXRhspOSd28gFkPdethYP1lfuv4=; b=lUalUwVWB6ZtSntBz0dycYxhwKoMpcM+jbAb0B2fUk5qJ8SKdJpDgvngXWUWHgwFF/yBrT YIhiY/JL0CgslulRghyGWZJOre92J3/+lvDfZez5gqjAeoXYP9cPl7HPQ5eiNshOQV7Zdz BveZnMU0uYafdjS/qaZzUuUN9OItvu9aQZAO++VD7F0WWm5uGQDW2A/+I9MsgA9OgIKt32 I+klZLf8q27U7Oa4a/O9SO+aGacWtSufQ02SF3Mn0VOtq04AsHTwAt6HbL6+d1j7jwKxax dccHpgn8KoXascoF8psskfynbSXUASVFHim0DlOPk+wZIF+59IqU0fmgqF07bg== ARC-Seal: i=1; s=key1; d=yhetil.org; t=1659997658; a=rsa-sha256; cv=none; b=GFSRvam8gqJlmLI8CKr9clNNVBpbxkKddY4VZx58QastWDlatv7kbU3HmlkkZvpOcVdoqp cje3nrjUI5nV9J7/wfXz96DL4rhcglo4eQmhDkTd5+y22GXMrQ3zaJ54E6GkXaSJGT0wdU o3qahgj/WYd7Ilvnt8lQ4FiRLftaFWEY4GhDO2Xarmxj5DvISelaU8AxKlg0E7GR1zU+Tw PIzEXt7vIZiumCgvicFdeJr+4f3TdIxxpOuNr32dlt7gn+TiEjnOA6umQINaNchF+vcoKj c0R5OaMuxsV3iFJ6KiDLPMAUYBOheLwbUa4NdFJXQbSRXLj67RUhq84zcVlDwA== ARC-Authentication-Results: i=1; aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=bqDJw6sz; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Spam-Score: -3.89 Authentication-Results: aspmx1.migadu.com; dkim=pass header.d=gmail.com header.s=20210112 header.b=bqDJw6sz; dmarc=pass (policy=none) header.from=gmail.com; spf=pass (aspmx1.migadu.com: domain of "emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" designates 209.51.188.17 as permitted sender) smtp.mailfrom="emacs-orgmode-bounces+larch=yhetil.org@gnu.org" X-Migadu-Queue-Id: 6D2D235A2C X-Spam-Score: -3.89 X-Migadu-Scanner: scn1.migadu.com X-TUID: xGLB5ReREQ8a Hi Bastien, all you wrote is fine IMO. However, I think Ihor's point was mainly in response to the request that we notify the list when compatibility is going to be lost and that when it comes to versions less than the currently maintained versions, this isn't really possible. To put it in more concrete terms, based on your example below, we don't know exactly when org loses compatibility with Emacs 25.x because we are no longer testing against that version (we are only testing against 28, 27 and 26). We don't know the precise commit which breaks compatibility with 25 as we are no longer testing against that version, so cannot notify the list when compatibility is lost. Obviously, when we do know, we can notify the list. Sometimes, it is clear that a patch or commit will break compatibility with an old version. However, we cannot provide any guarantee we will always notify the list when that compatibility is lost. Often, this only becomes known when someone posts to the list to say it no longer works. Therefore, I think the position should be that once an emacs version is no longer one of the supported versions (current stable Emacs release plus two previous major versions), there is no guarantee we will inform the list when compatibility is lost. If you are running an unsupported versions, either you should avoid updates or be prepared for breakage without warning. When we do know a commit has broken compatibility, that information will be relayed to the list, but we cannot guarantee we can provide such information at the time the change is committed. Running an unsupported versions is at your own risk. Bastien writes: > Hi Ihor, > > Ihor Radchenko writes: > >> Could you please elaborate on how exactly we can determine if a >> commit changes the compatibility status? > > Today, we are interested in knowing whether Org is compatible with > Emacs 28.1, Emacs 27.1 and Emacs Emacs 26.1. > > Ideally, this means maintainers run the test suite against these > versions in order to check that bugfixes and/or new features don't > introduce incompatible code. > > We don't need to run tests against Emacs <=25: if Org runs okay on > Emacs <=25, it's good. If not, users can report it: maintainers are > not bound to fix such incompatibilities and we don't need to know or > to announce them beforehand since we don't make a promise that Org > will run with Emacs <=25. > > On https://orgmode.org/worg/org-maintenance.html I added this: > > It does not mean that Org will not be usable, at least partially, > with older Emacsen: but maintainers are not bound to fix bugs > reported on them. > > WDYT?