From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 From: Carsten Dominik Subject: Re: Re: OT Re: unicorn Date: Sat, 28 Feb 2009 20:35:29 +0100 Message-ID: <74C5F3DA-6395-4555-9862-96CA12F699F0@uva.nl> References: <49A5BF02.1090400@rk-f.me> <874oyggml6.fsf@gnu.org> <56DD71CD-D7DD-4639-80D1-2888472DA7E8@uva.nl> <87ljrru3vc.fsf@rosslaird.info> <87bpsmxv9p.fsf@rosslaird.info> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v930.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Return-path: Received: from mailman by lists.gnu.org with tmda-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LdUyE-0003cF-5E for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:35:34 -0500 Received: from exim by lists.gnu.org with spam-scanned (Exim 4.43) id 1LdUyD-0003bV-Hi for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:35:33 -0500 Received: from [199.232.76.173] (port=59172 helo=monty-python.gnu.org) by lists.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1LdUyD-0003b8-B6 for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:35:33 -0500 Received: from mail-ew0-f179.google.com ([209.85.219.179]:35788) by monty-python.gnu.org with esmtp (Exim 4.60) (envelope-from ) id 1LdUyC-0005c5-Tw for emacs-orgmode@gnu.org; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 14:35:33 -0500 Received: by ewy27 with SMTP id 27so1761787ewy.42 for ; Sat, 28 Feb 2009 11:35:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <87bpsmxv9p.fsf@rosslaird.info> List-Id: "General discussions about Org-mode." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org Errors-To: emacs-orgmode-bounces+geo-emacs-orgmode=m.gmane.org@gnu.org To: "Ross A. Laird" Cc: emacs-orgmode@gnu.org On Feb 28, 2009, at 7:37 PM, Ross A. Laird wrote: > Carsten Dominik writes: > >> Hi Ross, >> >> great post, thank you very much! >> >> You have made me curious: What argumentation is used to estimate >> the age of Myth at 70000 years. I can't be the fossile record, >> I guess :-) So I am wondering how something like this is figured >> out. >> >> If you feel like putting background stuff about unicorns into the >> FAQ, be my guest. >> >> - Carsten >> > > Hi Carsten; > > Thanks for the feedback -- and actually, I was wondering if someone > might ask about the 70,000 years. Until recently, the accepted date > for > the appearance of human culture -- as evidenced by complex tools and > apparent symbolic thinking -- was somewhere around thirty or forty > thousand years ago (the so-called Willendorf Venus figures, for > example). But this threshold has now doubled back -- to at least > seventy > thousand before the present. Archaeologists working at the Blombos > cave > in South Africa have found, among other surprises, finely worked > weapons > decorated with symbolic engravings -- within a strata older than > seventy > thousand years. > > So, it seems that humans were thinking in terms of symbols at least > 70,000 years ago. And symbols always derive from myths (this is the > most > basic rule of myth: symbols indicate myths). So, myths are at least > 70,000 years old. By the way, this is not the same as the emergence of > individuality, which is a related but not identical development. > Individuality seems to have taken quite a bit longer: it seems to > first > appear with the ancient Egyptians around 3000 BCE. A statue of the > pharaoh Khafre (the owner of the second-largest pyramid at Giza) is > the > world's oldest surviving individualized work of art. This statue is > now > in room 42 of the Cairo Museum. So indeed, the answer to life, the > universe, and everything is 42! (I devoted quite a bit of time to > Khafre > in my book on myth; he was a very interesting character who may be the > face on the sphinx; and the sphinx, of course, is of the same > mythological family as the unicorn). Hi Ross, I can see how symbols can be related to Myth. But I am wondering if the definition of individualism is not very restrictive. I believe I have read somewhere that decoration or jewelry, personal ornaments, are a way to detect individuality, and I surely would have thought that this must pre-date work of art that depicts an individual - which I think is what you are referring to with Kafre, I have seen pictures of his face fragment - beautiful (is that in room 42 as well?) Cheers - Carsten